1 00:01:45,210 --> 00:01:58,420 you 2 00:01:58,420 --> 00:01:58,430 3 00:01:58,430 --> 00:02:01,280 welcome to another in the series of 4 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:01,290 welcome to another in the series of 5 00:02:01,290 --> 00:02:03,800 welcome to another in the series of guest lectures on NASA's program and 6 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:03,810 guest lectures on NASA's program and 7 00:02:03,810 --> 00:02:07,640 guest lectures on NASA's program and project management today we will be 8 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:07,650 project management today we will be 9 00:02:07,650 --> 00:02:09,889 project management today we will be discussing management issues as they 10 00:02:09,889 --> 00:02:09,899 discussing management issues as they 11 00:02:09,899 --> 00:02:12,170 discussing management issues as they have appeared in the manned spaceflight 12 00:02:12,170 --> 00:02:12,180 have appeared in the manned spaceflight 13 00:02:12,180 --> 00:02:16,370 have appeared in the manned spaceflight programs our participants are Aaron 14 00:02:16,370 --> 00:02:16,380 programs our participants are Aaron 15 00:02:16,380 --> 00:02:19,040 programs our participants are Aaron Cohen director of NASA's lyndon b 16 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:19,050 Cohen director of NASA's lyndon b 17 00:02:19,050 --> 00:02:23,030 Cohen director of NASA's lyndon b johnson space center Henry Pohl JSC's 18 00:02:23,030 --> 00:02:23,040 johnson space center Henry Pohl JSC's 19 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,690 johnson space center Henry Pohl JSC's director of engineering I'm Joe Loftus 20 00:02:26,690 --> 00:02:26,700 director of engineering I'm Joe Loftus 21 00:02:26,700 --> 00:02:29,270 director of engineering I'm Joe Loftus assistant director for plans at the 22 00:02:29,270 --> 00:02:29,280 assistant director for plans at the 23 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,390 assistant director for plans at the Johnson Space Center I'd like to begin 24 00:02:32,390 --> 00:02:32,400 Johnson Space Center I'd like to begin 25 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,820 Johnson Space Center I'd like to begin our discussion by asking each of our 26 00:02:34,820 --> 00:02:34,830 our discussion by asking each of our 27 00:02:34,830 --> 00:02:37,040 our discussion by asking each of our participants to briefly talk about 28 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:37,050 participants to briefly talk about 29 00:02:37,050 --> 00:02:40,460 participants to briefly talk about themselves Aaron would you briefly 30 00:02:40,460 --> 00:02:40,470 themselves Aaron would you briefly 31 00:02:40,470 --> 00:02:42,199 themselves Aaron would you briefly summarize your career since you 32 00:02:42,199 --> 00:02:42,209 summarize your career since you 33 00:02:42,209 --> 00:02:44,690 summarize your career since you graduated from Texas A&M and tell us a 34 00:02:44,690 --> 00:02:44,700 graduated from Texas A&M and tell us a 35 00:02:44,700 --> 00:02:46,460 graduated from Texas A&M and tell us a little about what you did before you 36 00:02:46,460 --> 00:02:46,470 little about what you did before you 37 00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:49,430 little about what you did before you became a manager ok I after getting out 38 00:02:49,430 --> 00:02:49,440 became a manager ok I after getting out 39 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,870 became a manager ok I after getting out of Texas am I went to I went to the army 40 00:02:53,870 --> 00:02:53,880 of Texas am I went to I went to the army 41 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:59,360 of Texas am I went to I went to the army from 1952 to 1954 and then from 54 to 58 42 00:02:59,360 --> 00:02:59,370 from 1952 to 1954 and then from 54 to 58 43 00:02:59,370 --> 00:03:02,180 from 1952 to 1954 and then from 54 to 58 I was with RCA Radio Corporation of 44 00:03:02,180 --> 00:03:02,190 I was with RCA Radio Corporation of 45 00:03:02,190 --> 00:03:05,539 I was with RCA Radio Corporation of America and then from 58 to 62 I was 46 00:03:05,539 --> 00:03:05,549 America and then from 58 to 62 I was 47 00:03:05,549 --> 00:03:07,640 America and then from 58 to 62 I was with the General Dynamics Corporation 48 00:03:07,640 --> 00:03:07,650 with the General Dynamics Corporation 49 00:03:07,650 --> 00:03:10,070 with the General Dynamics Corporation and then in 62 I came to the Johnson 50 00:03:10,070 --> 00:03:10,080 and then in 62 I came to the Johnson 51 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,530 and then in 62 I came to the Johnson Space Center at various jobs in Johnson 52 00:03:12,530 --> 00:03:12,540 Space Center at various jobs in Johnson 53 00:03:12,540 --> 00:03:15,140 Space Center at various jobs in Johnson Space Center primarily in the guidance 54 00:03:15,140 --> 00:03:15,150 Space Center primarily in the guidance 55 00:03:15,150 --> 00:03:17,360 Space Center primarily in the guidance navigation area and managing that 56 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:17,370 navigation area and managing that 57 00:03:17,370 --> 00:03:20,840 navigation area and managing that activity with the Draper labs and MIT 58 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:20,850 activity with the Draper labs and MIT 59 00:03:20,850 --> 00:03:22,370 activity with the Draper labs and MIT instrumentation lab at that time and 60 00:03:22,370 --> 00:03:22,380 instrumentation lab at that time and 61 00:03:22,380 --> 00:03:25,430 instrumentation lab at that time and then deputy of the systems integration 62 00:03:25,430 --> 00:03:25,440 then deputy of the systems integration 63 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:32,930 then deputy of the systems integration office in the period of 1968 272 I was a 64 00:03:32,930 --> 00:03:32,940 office in the period of 1968 272 I was a 65 00:03:32,940 --> 00:03:34,940 office in the period of 1968 272 I was a command service module project manager 66 00:03:34,940 --> 00:03:34,950 command service module project manager 67 00:03:34,950 --> 00:03:40,670 command service module project manager and then from us 72 to 80 to it was the 68 00:03:40,670 --> 00:03:40,680 and then from us 72 to 80 to it was the 69 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,030 and then from us 72 to 80 to it was the orbiter project manager 8286 I was the 70 00:03:44,030 --> 00:03:44,040 orbiter project manager 8286 I was the 71 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:45,979 orbiter project manager 8286 I was the director of research and engineering and 72 00:03:45,979 --> 00:03:45,989 director of research and engineering and 73 00:03:45,989 --> 00:03:48,710 director of research and engineering and from 86 to the current time director the 74 00:03:48,710 --> 00:03:48,720 from 86 to the current time director the 75 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,979 from 86 to the current time director the Johnson Space Center Thank You Henry 76 00:03:51,979 --> 00:03:51,989 Johnson Space Center Thank You Henry 77 00:03:51,989 --> 00:03:53,240 Johnson Space Center Thank You Henry would you tell us a little bit about 78 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:53,250 would you tell us a little bit about 79 00:03:53,250 --> 00:03:57,380 would you tell us a little bit about yourself well I graduated from Texas A&M 80 00:03:57,380 --> 00:03:57,390 yourself well I graduated from Texas A&M 81 00:03:57,390 --> 00:04:00,820 yourself well I graduated from Texas A&M two hours crafting spent two years 82 00:04:00,820 --> 00:04:00,830 two hours crafting spent two years 83 00:04:00,830 --> 00:04:03,760 two hours crafting spent two years service I started out as a test engineer 84 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:03,770 service I started out as a test engineer 85 00:04:03,770 --> 00:04:06,130 service I started out as a test engineer on the red stone in Huntsville Alabama I 86 00:04:06,130 --> 00:04:06,140 on the red stone in Huntsville Alabama I 87 00:04:06,140 --> 00:04:10,800 on the red stone in Huntsville Alabama I worked on the Jupiter on the Saturn I 88 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:10,810 worked on the Jupiter on the Saturn I 89 00:04:10,810 --> 00:04:13,420 worked on the Jupiter on the Saturn I got in some design work designed the 90 00:04:13,420 --> 00:04:13,430 got in some design work designed the 91 00:04:13,430 --> 00:04:14,920 got in some design work designed the small rocket motors that were put in 92 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:14,930 small rocket motors that were put in 93 00:04:14,930 --> 00:04:17,590 small rocket motors that were put in wind tunnels at the Tullahoma I came 94 00:04:17,590 --> 00:04:17,600 wind tunnels at the Tullahoma I came 95 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,780 wind tunnels at the Tullahoma I came down here over subsystem manager on the 96 00:04:19,780 --> 00:04:19,790 down here over subsystem manager on the 97 00:04:19,790 --> 00:04:23,050 down here over subsystem manager on the RCS for Apollo our section head from 98 00:04:23,050 --> 00:04:23,060 RCS for Apollo our section head from 99 00:04:23,060 --> 00:04:28,080 RCS for Apollo our section head from about 64 65 aqui remember when to about 100 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:28,090 about 64 65 aqui remember when to about 101 00:04:28,090 --> 00:04:35,740 about 64 65 aqui remember when to about 67 brace G from 67 279 division chief 102 00:04:35,740 --> 00:04:35,750 67 brace G from 67 279 division chief 103 00:04:35,750 --> 00:04:41,110 67 brace G from 67 279 division chief from 79 to 86 in the propulsion power 104 00:04:41,110 --> 00:04:41,120 from 79 to 86 in the propulsion power 105 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,590 from 79 to 86 in the propulsion power division and in 86 I became director of 106 00:04:44,590 --> 00:04:44,600 division and in 86 I became director of 107 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:50,590 division and in 86 I became director of engineering very good Aaron would you 108 00:04:50,590 --> 00:04:50,600 engineering very good Aaron would you 109 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,380 engineering very good Aaron would you briefly summarize what you think are the 110 00:04:53,380 --> 00:04:53,390 briefly summarize what you think are the 111 00:04:53,390 --> 00:04:56,350 briefly summarize what you think are the key things that a manager must do to 112 00:04:56,350 --> 00:04:56,360 key things that a manager must do to 113 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,290 key things that a manager must do to achieve success well I rethink that one 114 00:04:59,290 --> 00:04:59,300 achieve success well I rethink that one 115 00:04:59,300 --> 00:05:03,970 achieve success well I rethink that one of the key things is have some in your 116 00:05:03,970 --> 00:05:03,980 of the key things is have some in your 117 00:05:03,980 --> 00:05:05,230 of the key things is have some in your career have some early hands-on 118 00:05:05,230 --> 00:05:05,240 career have some early hands-on 119 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,090 career have some early hands-on experience but I think you have to start 120 00:05:07,090 --> 00:05:07,100 experience but I think you have to start 121 00:05:07,100 --> 00:05:10,330 experience but I think you have to start out with saying that the key elements 122 00:05:10,330 --> 00:05:10,340 out with saying that the key elements 123 00:05:10,340 --> 00:05:12,820 out with saying that the key elements are the exact elements of managing being 124 00:05:12,820 --> 00:05:12,830 are the exact elements of managing being 125 00:05:12,830 --> 00:05:14,350 are the exact elements of managing being good manager of the programs of 126 00:05:14,350 --> 00:05:14,360 good manager of the programs of 127 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,480 good manager of the programs of yesterday or yesteryear may not be 128 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:16,490 yesterday or yesteryear may not be 129 00:05:16,490 --> 00:05:18,520 yesterday or yesteryear may not be exactly the same key elements of today 130 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:18,530 exactly the same key elements of today 131 00:05:18,530 --> 00:05:20,740 exactly the same key elements of today so I think you have to take you have to 132 00:05:20,740 --> 00:05:20,750 so I think you have to take you have to 133 00:05:20,750 --> 00:05:22,120 so I think you have to take you have to understand that and they have to start 134 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:22,130 understand that and they have to start 135 00:05:22,130 --> 00:05:23,830 understand that and they have to start with that point the new program managers 136 00:05:23,830 --> 00:05:23,840 with that point the new program managers 137 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:25,060 with that point the new program managers project managers gonna have different 138 00:05:25,060 --> 00:05:25,070 project managers gonna have different 139 00:05:25,070 --> 00:05:27,220 project managers gonna have different pressures in the olden on the other hand 140 00:05:27,220 --> 00:05:27,230 pressures in the olden on the other hand 141 00:05:27,230 --> 00:05:30,610 pressures in the olden on the other hand I do think there's some factors that are 142 00:05:30,610 --> 00:05:30,620 I do think there's some factors that are 143 00:05:30,620 --> 00:05:33,430 I do think there's some factors that are common one is start off I think some 144 00:05:33,430 --> 00:05:33,440 common one is start off I think some 145 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,400 common one is start off I think some early hands-on experience is important 146 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:35,410 early hands-on experience is important 147 00:05:35,410 --> 00:05:38,770 early hands-on experience is important whatever small project they may be to 148 00:05:38,770 --> 00:05:38,780 whatever small project they may be to 149 00:05:38,780 --> 00:05:40,659 whatever small project they may be to carry a project through to see how 150 00:05:40,659 --> 00:05:40,669 carry a project through to see how 151 00:05:40,669 --> 00:05:43,620 carry a project through to see how drawings are made to see how design a 152 00:05:43,620 --> 00:05:43,630 drawings are made to see how design a 153 00:05:43,630 --> 00:05:46,780 drawings are made to see how design a design that comes about to see how parts 154 00:05:46,780 --> 00:05:46,790 design that comes about to see how parts 155 00:05:46,790 --> 00:05:48,580 design that comes about to see how parts or machine how the process parts in the 156 00:05:48,580 --> 00:05:48,590 or machine how the process parts in the 157 00:05:48,590 --> 00:05:52,390 or machine how the process parts in the factory how you do the testing I think 158 00:05:52,390 --> 00:05:52,400 factory how you do the testing I think 159 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,070 factory how you do the testing I think that's all very important if a person 160 00:05:54,070 --> 00:05:54,080 that's all very important if a person 161 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:55,990 that's all very important if a person can do that I think you set a good 162 00:05:55,990 --> 00:05:56,000 can do that I think you set a good 163 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,540 can do that I think you set a good foundation for a project manager of 164 00:05:58,540 --> 00:05:58,550 foundation for a project manager of 165 00:05:58,550 --> 00:06:02,680 foundation for a project manager of course that is 11 item I think that's 166 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:02,690 course that is 11 item I think that's 167 00:06:02,690 --> 00:06:04,780 course that is 11 item I think that's important the other item I think is key 168 00:06:04,780 --> 00:06:04,790 important the other item I think is key 169 00:06:04,790 --> 00:06:07,030 important the other item I think is key is very important is you need to be 170 00:06:07,030 --> 00:06:07,040 is very important is you need to be 171 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,650 is very important is you need to be patient you need to you need to 172 00:06:10,650 --> 00:06:10,660 patient you need to you need to 173 00:06:10,660 --> 00:06:13,930 patient you need to you need to understand people and be people oriented 174 00:06:13,930 --> 00:06:13,940 understand people and be people oriented 175 00:06:13,940 --> 00:06:15,730 understand people and be people oriented you need to be able to communicate with 176 00:06:15,730 --> 00:06:15,740 you need to be able to communicate with 177 00:06:15,740 --> 00:06:18,550 you need to be able to communicate with people communicate with people both in 178 00:06:18,550 --> 00:06:18,560 people communicate with people both in 179 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,970 people communicate with people both in the in all directions down words upwards 180 00:06:21,970 --> 00:06:21,980 the in all directions down words upwards 181 00:06:21,980 --> 00:06:23,440 the in all directions down words upwards and laterally you need to be able to 182 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:23,450 and laterally you need to be able to 183 00:06:23,450 --> 00:06:26,110 and laterally you need to be able to communicate the people oriented and make 184 00:06:26,110 --> 00:06:26,120 communicate the people oriented and make 185 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,450 communicate the people oriented and make people feel you want to hear what they 186 00:06:28,450 --> 00:06:28,460 people feel you want to hear what they 187 00:06:28,460 --> 00:06:30,970 people feel you want to hear what they have to say I think you have to be able 188 00:06:30,970 --> 00:06:30,980 have to say I think you have to be able 189 00:06:30,980 --> 00:06:33,460 have to say I think you have to be able to take criticism you've got to be able 190 00:06:33,460 --> 00:06:33,470 to take criticism you've got to be able 191 00:06:33,470 --> 00:06:35,620 to take criticism you've got to be able to take criticism and not become 192 00:06:35,620 --> 00:06:35,630 to take criticism and not become 193 00:06:35,630 --> 00:06:39,960 to take criticism and not become defensive and and do that type of thing 194 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:39,970 defensive and and do that type of thing 195 00:06:39,970 --> 00:06:43,840 defensive and and do that type of thing and I think you need to know have to 196 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:43,850 and I think you need to know have to 197 00:06:43,850 --> 00:06:46,360 and I think you need to know have to know when to compromise you need to know 198 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:46,370 know when to compromise you need to know 199 00:06:46,370 --> 00:06:49,540 know when to compromise you need to know when to to compromise and get a solution 200 00:06:49,540 --> 00:06:49,550 when to to compromise and get a solution 201 00:06:49,550 --> 00:06:51,310 when to to compromise and get a solution rather than argue for a point that you 202 00:06:51,310 --> 00:06:51,320 rather than argue for a point that you 203 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:52,780 rather than argue for a point that you feel that's wrong so those I think are 204 00:06:52,780 --> 00:06:52,790 feel that's wrong so those I think are 205 00:06:52,790 --> 00:06:56,680 feel that's wrong so those I think are some of the the key elements that make 206 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:56,690 some of the the key elements that make 207 00:06:56,690 --> 00:07:01,630 some of the the key elements that make up i think the the attributes and if 208 00:07:01,630 --> 00:07:01,640 up i think the the attributes and if 209 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,400 up i think the the attributes and if programs for yesteryear and programs of 210 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:03,410 programs for yesteryear and programs of 211 00:07:03,410 --> 00:07:05,380 programs for yesteryear and programs of tomorrow or similar key elements i think 212 00:07:05,380 --> 00:07:05,390 tomorrow or similar key elements i think 213 00:07:05,390 --> 00:07:06,940 tomorrow or similar key elements i think in a person in becoming a program 214 00:07:06,940 --> 00:07:06,950 in a person in becoming a program 215 00:07:06,950 --> 00:07:12,730 in a person in becoming a program manager project what are the major 216 00:07:12,730 --> 00:07:12,740 manager project what are the major 217 00:07:12,740 --> 00:07:14,500 manager project what are the major changes that you've seen in the 218 00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:14,510 changes that you've seen in the 219 00:07:14,510 --> 00:07:16,330 changes that you've seen in the management of NASA projects over the 220 00:07:16,330 --> 00:07:16,340 management of NASA projects over the 221 00:07:16,340 --> 00:07:19,360 management of NASA projects over the years well I think you know the two big 222 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:19,370 years well I think you know the two big 223 00:07:19,370 --> 00:07:21,159 years well I think you know the two big programs that I managed was the proud 224 00:07:21,159 --> 00:07:21,169 programs that I managed was the proud 225 00:07:21,169 --> 00:07:23,650 programs that I managed was the proud the command service module for the 226 00:07:23,650 --> 00:07:23,660 the command service module for the 227 00:07:23,660 --> 00:07:25,810 the command service module for the Apollo program and Henry might want to 228 00:07:25,810 --> 00:07:25,820 Apollo program and Henry might want to 229 00:07:25,820 --> 00:07:26,920 Apollo program and Henry might want to add a little bit on this and then the 230 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:26,930 add a little bit on this and then the 231 00:07:26,930 --> 00:07:30,400 add a little bit on this and then the the the arbiter the one in the 60s and 232 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:30,410 the the arbiter the one in the 60s and 233 00:07:30,410 --> 00:07:32,980 the the arbiter the one in the 60s and one in the 70s and I think if you had to 234 00:07:32,980 --> 00:07:32,990 one in the 70s and I think if you had to 235 00:07:32,990 --> 00:07:36,970 one in the 70s and I think if you had to say the the differences are are the are 236 00:07:36,970 --> 00:07:36,980 say the the differences are are the are 237 00:07:36,980 --> 00:07:39,150 say the the differences are are the are the pressures you may have the both the 238 00:07:39,150 --> 00:07:39,160 the pressures you may have the both the 239 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,880 the pressures you may have the both the little bit from the external pressures 240 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:41,890 little bit from the external pressures 241 00:07:41,890 --> 00:07:45,520 little bit from the external pressures if you go back to the Apollo era I think 242 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:45,530 if you go back to the Apollo era I think 243 00:07:45,530 --> 00:07:48,370 if you go back to the Apollo era I think the if you look at the Apollo program I 244 00:07:48,370 --> 00:07:48,380 the if you look at the Apollo program I 245 00:07:48,380 --> 00:07:51,490 the if you look at the Apollo program I think you say they the key thing you had 246 00:07:51,490 --> 00:07:51,500 think you say they the key thing you had 247 00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:55,450 think you say they the key thing you had to do was to look at performance I think 248 00:07:55,450 --> 00:07:55,460 to do was to look at performance I think 249 00:07:55,460 --> 00:07:57,880 to do was to look at performance I think performance was primary schedule was 250 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:57,890 performance was primary schedule was 251 00:07:57,890 --> 00:08:00,070 performance was primary schedule was second and then cost and I think those 252 00:08:00,070 --> 00:08:00,080 second and then cost and I think those 253 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,180 second and then cost and I think those are the three elements of course a 254 00:08:01,180 --> 00:08:01,190 are the three elements of course a 255 00:08:01,190 --> 00:08:03,780 are the three elements of course a program management or performance 256 00:08:03,780 --> 00:08:03,790 program management or performance 257 00:08:03,790 --> 00:08:05,830 program management or performance schedule and cost and those are the 258 00:08:05,830 --> 00:08:05,840 schedule and cost and those are the 259 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:07,360 schedule and cost and those are the three trade-offs that a program manager 260 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:07,370 three trade-offs that a program manager 261 00:08:07,370 --> 00:08:10,810 three trade-offs that a program manager has to continually do I think in the 262 00:08:10,810 --> 00:08:10,820 has to continually do I think in the 263 00:08:10,820 --> 00:08:13,180 has to continually do I think in the shuttle era you still had performance 264 00:08:13,180 --> 00:08:13,190 shuttle era you still had performance 265 00:08:13,190 --> 00:08:15,070 shuttle era you still had performance was still very key is still I would say 266 00:08:15,070 --> 00:08:15,080 was still very key is still I would say 267 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,730 was still very key is still I would say number one but i think cost was 268 00:08:17,730 --> 00:08:17,740 number one but i think cost was 269 00:08:17,740 --> 00:08:20,350 number one but i think cost was overriding schedule I think cost was 270 00:08:20,350 --> 00:08:20,360 overriding schedule I think cost was 271 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,409 overriding schedule I think cost was more important than scheduled in the 272 00:08:23,409 --> 00:08:23,419 more important than scheduled in the 273 00:08:23,419 --> 00:08:25,910 more important than scheduled in the space station era I'm not sure I 274 00:08:25,910 --> 00:08:25,920 space station era I'm not sure I 275 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,150 space station era I'm not sure I I can tell yet I think certainly all 276 00:08:29,150 --> 00:08:29,160 I can tell yet I think certainly all 277 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,160 I can tell yet I think certainly all three are still very important and i'm 278 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:31,170 three are still very important and i'm 279 00:08:31,170 --> 00:08:33,680 three are still very important and i'm not sure i'm not sure that all the 280 00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:33,690 not sure i'm not sure that all the 281 00:08:33,690 --> 00:08:35,210 not sure i'm not sure that all the pressures that the space station people 282 00:08:35,210 --> 00:08:35,220 pressures that the space station people 283 00:08:35,220 --> 00:08:37,010 pressures that the space station people are going to have yet come to bear i 284 00:08:37,010 --> 00:08:37,020 are going to have yet come to bear i 285 00:08:37,020 --> 00:08:39,320 are going to have yet come to bear i think costs I think cost may even 286 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:39,330 think costs I think cost may even 287 00:08:39,330 --> 00:08:41,600 think costs I think cost may even override with schedule being second and 288 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:41,610 override with schedule being second and 289 00:08:41,610 --> 00:08:42,800 override with schedule being second and maybe performance going oh Henry you 290 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:42,810 maybe performance going oh Henry you 291 00:08:42,810 --> 00:08:44,210 maybe performance going oh Henry you might want to add something to it I 292 00:08:44,210 --> 00:08:44,220 might want to add something to it I 293 00:08:44,220 --> 00:08:46,250 might want to add something to it I agree with that I think one of the 294 00:08:46,250 --> 00:08:46,260 agree with that I think one of the 295 00:08:46,260 --> 00:08:48,830 agree with that I think one of the things that we've got into now is the 296 00:08:48,830 --> 00:08:48,840 things that we've got into now is the 297 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,290 things that we've got into now is the lack of flexibility in cost you know 298 00:08:51,290 --> 00:08:51,300 lack of flexibility in cost you know 299 00:08:51,300 --> 00:08:54,380 lack of flexibility in cost you know Apollo we never had enough money in 300 00:08:54,380 --> 00:08:54,390 Apollo we never had enough money in 301 00:08:54,390 --> 00:08:56,570 Apollo we never had enough money in Apollo but we did have a lot more 302 00:08:56,570 --> 00:08:56,580 Apollo but we did have a lot more 303 00:08:56,580 --> 00:08:58,880 Apollo but we did have a lot more flexibility and how we can use it than 304 00:08:58,880 --> 00:08:58,890 flexibility and how we can use it than 305 00:08:58,890 --> 00:09:01,100 flexibility and how we can use it than we have oh yeah an Apollo I would say 306 00:09:01,100 --> 00:09:01,110 we have oh yeah an Apollo I would say 307 00:09:01,110 --> 00:09:03,230 we have oh yeah an Apollo I would say that if you had a problem in Apollo you 308 00:09:03,230 --> 00:09:03,240 that if you had a problem in Apollo you 309 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,510 that if you had a problem in Apollo you and you got a problem you could go 310 00:09:05,510 --> 00:09:05,520 and you got a problem you could go 311 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,820 and you got a problem you could go mostly paths to get the solution and 312 00:09:07,820 --> 00:09:07,830 mostly paths to get the solution and 313 00:09:07,830 --> 00:09:09,710 mostly paths to get the solution and then pick the solution you want to but 314 00:09:09,710 --> 00:09:09,720 then pick the solution you want to but 315 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,420 then pick the solution you want to but you could carry multipass for a while in 316 00:09:11,420 --> 00:09:11,430 you could carry multipass for a while in 317 00:09:11,430 --> 00:09:13,160 you could carry multipass for a while in the shuttle program and the arm pro I 318 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:13,170 the shuttle program and the arm pro I 319 00:09:13,170 --> 00:09:15,200 the shuttle program and the arm pro I think what you had to do in that case 320 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:15,210 think what you had to do in that case 321 00:09:15,210 --> 00:09:17,270 think what you had to do in that case was to pick pick the solute not go 322 00:09:17,270 --> 00:09:17,280 was to pick pick the solute not go 323 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:18,740 was to pick pick the solute not go parallel paths pick the solution you 324 00:09:18,740 --> 00:09:18,750 parallel paths pick the solution you 325 00:09:18,750 --> 00:09:21,980 parallel paths pick the solution you wanted and you know with good judgment 326 00:09:21,980 --> 00:09:21,990 wanted and you know with good judgment 327 00:09:21,990 --> 00:09:24,470 wanted and you know with good judgment in good decision-making I hope that 328 00:09:24,470 --> 00:09:24,480 in good decision-making I hope that 329 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,000 in good decision-making I hope that decision was right but not go parallel 330 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:26,010 decision was right but not go parallel 331 00:09:26,010 --> 00:09:27,380 decision was right but not go parallel paths for that long and I think that's 332 00:09:27,380 --> 00:09:27,390 paths for that long and I think that's 333 00:09:27,390 --> 00:09:29,420 paths for that long and I think that's one of the differences in the shuttle 334 00:09:29,420 --> 00:09:29,430 one of the differences in the shuttle 335 00:09:29,430 --> 00:09:30,950 one of the differences in the shuttle program you couldn't even continue a 336 00:09:30,950 --> 00:09:30,960 program you couldn't even continue a 337 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,020 program you couldn't even continue a program you had to start it and then you 338 00:09:33,020 --> 00:09:33,030 program you had to start it and then you 339 00:09:33,030 --> 00:09:34,490 program you had to start it and then you had to stop it because you had to take 340 00:09:34,490 --> 00:09:34,500 had to stop it because you had to take 341 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:36,200 had to stop it because you had to take those funds and transfer us on the glass 342 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:36,210 those funds and transfer us on the glass 343 00:09:36,210 --> 00:09:38,960 those funds and transfer us on the glass house and pick up that's right and get 344 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:38,970 house and pick up that's right and get 345 00:09:38,970 --> 00:09:41,360 house and pick up that's right and get that one up up to the even keel and then 346 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:41,370 that one up up to the even keel and then 347 00:09:41,370 --> 00:09:43,460 that one up up to the even keel and then go back and pick up the other project 348 00:09:43,460 --> 00:09:43,470 go back and pick up the other project 349 00:09:43,470 --> 00:09:45,860 go back and pick up the other project and bring it along to keep everything 350 00:09:45,860 --> 00:09:45,870 and bring it along to keep everything 351 00:09:45,870 --> 00:09:49,820 and bring it along to keep everything going on even keel and I think the the 352 00:09:49,820 --> 00:09:49,830 going on even keel and I think the the 353 00:09:49,830 --> 00:09:52,670 going on even keel and I think the the program of the of the space station air 354 00:09:52,670 --> 00:09:52,680 program of the of the space station air 355 00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:54,110 program of the of the space station air there's going to be a lot of pressures 356 00:09:54,110 --> 00:09:54,120 there's going to be a lot of pressures 357 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:55,100 there's going to be a lot of pressures and I think you can keep those 358 00:09:55,100 --> 00:09:55,110 and I think you can keep those 359 00:09:55,110 --> 00:09:56,690 and I think you can keep those fundamentals I talked about in front of 360 00:09:56,690 --> 00:09:56,700 fundamentals I talked about in front of 361 00:09:56,700 --> 00:09:59,840 fundamentals I talked about in front of you I think you can overcome those the 362 00:09:59,840 --> 00:09:59,850 you I think you can overcome those the 363 00:09:59,850 --> 00:10:03,740 you I think you can overcome those the new pressures that might come about one 364 00:10:03,740 --> 00:10:03,750 new pressures that might come about one 365 00:10:03,750 --> 00:10:05,330 new pressures that might come about one of the things that has been talked about 366 00:10:05,330 --> 00:10:05,340 of the things that has been talked about 367 00:10:05,340 --> 00:10:07,540 of the things that has been talked about a great deal recently is organizational 368 00:10:07,540 --> 00:10:07,550 a great deal recently is organizational 369 00:10:07,550 --> 00:10:11,210 a great deal recently is organizational cultures how would you characterize the 370 00:10:11,210 --> 00:10:11,220 cultures how would you characterize the 371 00:10:11,220 --> 00:10:13,910 cultures how would you characterize the NASA and JSC's cultures have they 372 00:10:13,910 --> 00:10:13,920 NASA and JSC's cultures have they 373 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,030 NASA and JSC's cultures have they changed do they need to change well I 374 00:10:17,030 --> 00:10:17,040 changed do they need to change well I 375 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:18,380 changed do they need to change well I think again there's some very 376 00:10:18,380 --> 00:10:18,390 think again there's some very 377 00:10:18,390 --> 00:10:20,540 think again there's some very fundamental things with culture I think 378 00:10:20,540 --> 00:10:20,550 fundamental things with culture I think 379 00:10:20,550 --> 00:10:24,860 fundamental things with culture I think I think that at the Johnson Space Center 380 00:10:24,860 --> 00:10:24,870 I think that at the Johnson Space Center 381 00:10:24,870 --> 00:10:29,060 I think that at the Johnson Space Center I think we have a culture that is I 382 00:10:29,060 --> 00:10:29,070 I think we have a culture that is I 383 00:10:29,070 --> 00:10:30,230 I think we have a culture that is I don't know if you'd call a participative 384 00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:30,240 don't know if you'd call a participative 385 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,120 don't know if you'd call a participative management or they're certainly an 386 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:32,130 management or they're certainly an 387 00:10:32,130 --> 00:10:34,600 management or they're certainly an interactive there's an interactive 388 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:34,610 interactive there's an interactive 389 00:10:34,610 --> 00:10:36,920 interactive there's an interactive activity interaction activity that takes 390 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:36,930 activity interaction activity that takes 391 00:10:36,930 --> 00:10:38,829 activity interaction activity that takes place in making a decision 392 00:10:38,829 --> 00:10:38,839 place in making a decision 393 00:10:38,839 --> 00:10:41,410 place in making a decision we have been left with the legacy that 394 00:10:41,410 --> 00:10:41,420 we have been left with the legacy that 395 00:10:41,420 --> 00:10:44,600 we have been left with the legacy that that if you have an issue that you have 396 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:44,610 that if you have an issue that you have 397 00:10:44,610 --> 00:10:46,790 that if you have an issue that you have a concern you feel free to express your 398 00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:46,800 a concern you feel free to express your 399 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,430 a concern you feel free to express your concern we weigh the problem we work the 400 00:10:49,430 --> 00:10:49,440 concern we weigh the problem we work the 401 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,400 concern we weigh the problem we work the problem and if the you may not always go 402 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:52,410 problem and if the you may not always go 403 00:10:52,410 --> 00:10:53,509 problem and if the you may not always go the way people the answer mean always 404 00:10:53,509 --> 00:10:53,519 the way people the answer mean always 405 00:10:53,519 --> 00:10:55,040 the way people the answer mean always come out the way people want it but 406 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:55,050 come out the way people want it but 407 00:10:55,050 --> 00:10:57,500 come out the way people want it but you're explained how you what decision 408 00:10:57,500 --> 00:10:57,510 you're explained how you what decision 409 00:10:57,510 --> 00:11:01,939 you're explained how you what decision you make and and you go on from there I 410 00:11:01,939 --> 00:11:01,949 you make and and you go on from there I 411 00:11:01,949 --> 00:11:05,569 you make and and you go on from there I think that the only culture change that 412 00:11:05,569 --> 00:11:05,579 think that the only culture change that 413 00:11:05,579 --> 00:11:09,850 think that the only culture change that I see that may take place is maybe the 414 00:11:09,850 --> 00:11:09,860 I see that may take place is maybe the 415 00:11:09,860 --> 00:11:12,350 I see that may take place is maybe the some external environment that says 416 00:11:12,350 --> 00:11:12,360 some external environment that says 417 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,439 some external environment that says there are more external pressures in 418 00:11:15,439 --> 00:11:15,449 there are more external pressures in 419 00:11:15,449 --> 00:11:18,110 there are more external pressures in terms of overview committees but even 420 00:11:18,110 --> 00:11:18,120 terms of overview committees but even 421 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,210 terms of overview committees but even then if you go back in the early days we 422 00:11:20,210 --> 00:11:20,220 then if you go back in the early days we 423 00:11:20,220 --> 00:11:21,769 then if you go back in the early days we still had a lot of overview committee so 424 00:11:21,769 --> 00:11:21,779 still had a lot of overview committee so 425 00:11:21,779 --> 00:11:24,889 still had a lot of overview committee so I'm not sure I see a big change except 426 00:11:24,889 --> 00:11:24,899 I'm not sure I see a big change except 427 00:11:24,899 --> 00:11:26,300 I'm not sure I see a big change except for the one fact at the Johnson Space 428 00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:26,310 for the one fact at the Johnson Space 429 00:11:26,310 --> 00:11:31,670 for the one fact at the Johnson Space Center is that we had previously had the 430 00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:31,680 Center is that we had previously had the 431 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:34,730 Center is that we had previously had the one big program of a Mercury Gemini 432 00:11:34,730 --> 00:11:34,740 one big program of a Mercury Gemini 433 00:11:34,740 --> 00:11:38,170 one big program of a Mercury Gemini Apollo it would come up and go away 434 00:11:38,170 --> 00:11:38,180 Apollo it would come up and go away 435 00:11:38,180 --> 00:11:40,340 Apollo it would come up and go away today we have shuttle and it's going to 436 00:11:40,340 --> 00:11:40,350 today we have shuttle and it's going to 437 00:11:40,350 --> 00:11:42,410 today we have shuttle and it's going to be with us for a long time and we've got 438 00:11:42,410 --> 00:11:42,420 be with us for a long time and we've got 439 00:11:42,420 --> 00:11:43,639 be with us for a long time and we've got space station it's going to be with us 440 00:11:43,639 --> 00:11:43,649 space station it's going to be with us 441 00:11:43,649 --> 00:11:45,230 space station it's going to be with us for a long time and then if we go on to 442 00:11:45,230 --> 00:11:45,240 for a long time and then if we go on to 443 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:46,730 for a long time and then if we go on to the lunar Mars initiative that's going 444 00:11:46,730 --> 00:11:46,740 the lunar Mars initiative that's going 445 00:11:46,740 --> 00:11:48,139 the lunar Mars initiative that's going to be with us for a long time so I think 446 00:11:48,139 --> 00:11:48,149 to be with us for a long time so I think 447 00:11:48,149 --> 00:11:49,490 to be with us for a long time so I think the culture is going to have to be able 448 00:11:49,490 --> 00:11:49,500 the culture is going to have to be able 449 00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:51,650 the culture is going to have to be able to accept and adapt to how you handle 450 00:11:51,650 --> 00:11:51,660 to accept and adapt to how you handle 451 00:11:51,660 --> 00:11:54,370 to accept and adapt to how you handle large multiple programs at the same time 452 00:11:54,370 --> 00:11:54,380 large multiple programs at the same time 453 00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:57,620 large multiple programs at the same time right you have anything well there's a 454 00:11:57,620 --> 00:11:57,630 right you have anything well there's a 455 00:11:57,630 --> 00:11:59,720 right you have anything well there's a couple of things that I see that has 456 00:11:59,720 --> 00:11:59,730 couple of things that I see that has 457 00:11:59,730 --> 00:12:01,970 couple of things that I see that has changed with time and it's kind of 458 00:12:01,970 --> 00:12:01,980 changed with time and it's kind of 459 00:12:01,980 --> 00:12:04,009 changed with time and it's kind of changing back now the first one we 460 00:12:04,009 --> 00:12:04,019 changing back now the first one we 461 00:12:04,019 --> 00:12:06,680 changing back now the first one we started out with Apollo we had a few 462 00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:06,690 started out with Apollo we had a few 463 00:12:06,690 --> 00:12:10,430 started out with Apollo we had a few what had called mature people and then 464 00:12:10,430 --> 00:12:10,440 what had called mature people and then 465 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,319 what had called mature people and then we had a large number of people there's 466 00:12:12,319 --> 00:12:12,329 we had a large number of people there's 467 00:12:12,329 --> 00:12:15,379 we had a large number of people there's fresh out of college when the shuttle 468 00:12:15,379 --> 00:12:15,389 fresh out of college when the shuttle 469 00:12:15,389 --> 00:12:17,990 fresh out of college when the shuttle program started then we had that 470 00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:18,000 program started then we had that 471 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,540 program started then we had that experience team that went through the 472 00:12:20,540 --> 00:12:20,550 experience team that went through the 473 00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:22,610 experience team that went through the Apollo program we learn an awful lot 474 00:12:22,610 --> 00:12:22,620 Apollo program we learn an awful lot 475 00:12:22,620 --> 00:12:25,490 Apollo program we learn an awful lot Apollo program and now as we start on 476 00:12:25,490 --> 00:12:25,500 Apollo program and now as we start on 477 00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:27,559 Apollo program and now as we start on Space Station we're going to develop 478 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:27,569 Space Station we're going to develop 479 00:12:27,569 --> 00:12:29,900 Space Station we're going to develop space station with a few mature people 480 00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:29,910 space station with a few mature people 481 00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:31,470 space station with a few mature people and a lot of young 482 00:12:31,470 --> 00:12:31,480 and a lot of young 483 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,370 and a lot of young so we're that's a good point i'm the 484 00:12:35,370 --> 00:12:35,380 so we're that's a good point i'm the 485 00:12:35,380 --> 00:12:37,949 so we're that's a good point i'm the type of organization that we had in 486 00:12:37,949 --> 00:12:37,959 type of organization that we had in 487 00:12:37,959 --> 00:12:39,509 type of organization that we had in there let me ask you Joe what do you 488 00:12:39,509 --> 00:12:39,519 there let me ask you Joe what do you 489 00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:41,699 there let me ask you Joe what do you think you've been you've been even 490 00:12:41,699 --> 00:12:41,709 think you've been you've been even 491 00:12:41,709 --> 00:12:43,189 think you've been you've been even around with what you're feeling on that 492 00:12:43,189 --> 00:12:43,199 around with what you're feeling on that 493 00:12:43,199 --> 00:12:47,129 around with what you're feeling on that well I think as you pointed out JSC 494 00:12:47,129 --> 00:12:47,139 well I think as you pointed out JSC 495 00:12:47,139 --> 00:12:51,319 well I think as you pointed out JSC developed a very unique kind of culture 496 00:12:51,319 --> 00:12:51,329 developed a very unique kind of culture 497 00:12:51,329 --> 00:12:54,509 developed a very unique kind of culture outside observers have characterized our 498 00:12:54,509 --> 00:12:54,519 outside observers have characterized our 499 00:12:54,519 --> 00:12:57,590 outside observers have characterized our decision making as being collegial and 500 00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:57,600 decision making as being collegial and 501 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,769 decision making as being collegial and have had difficulty understanding why we 502 00:13:01,769 --> 00:13:01,779 have had difficulty understanding why we 503 00:13:01,779 --> 00:13:04,350 have had difficulty understanding why we seem to be able to do it but I think 504 00:13:04,350 --> 00:13:04,360 seem to be able to do it but I think 505 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,329 seem to be able to do it but I think it's because we've dealt with issues 506 00:13:06,329 --> 00:13:06,339 it's because we've dealt with issues 507 00:13:06,339 --> 00:13:09,569 it's because we've dealt with issues that are very complex very technical and 508 00:13:09,569 --> 00:13:09,579 that are very complex very technical and 509 00:13:09,579 --> 00:13:12,569 that are very complex very technical and in which no one person had all the 510 00:13:12,569 --> 00:13:12,579 in which no one person had all the 511 00:13:12,579 --> 00:13:14,910 in which no one person had all the technical expertise to make a decision 512 00:13:14,910 --> 00:13:14,920 technical expertise to make a decision 513 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,519 technical expertise to make a decision so there was always this collegial 514 00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:17,529 so there was always this collegial 515 00:13:17,529 --> 00:13:19,889 so there was always this collegial discussion and then the program manager 516 00:13:19,889 --> 00:13:19,899 discussion and then the program manager 517 00:13:19,899 --> 00:13:21,930 discussion and then the program manager because he was the appointed decision 518 00:13:21,930 --> 00:13:21,940 because he was the appointed decision 519 00:13:21,940 --> 00:13:23,699 because he was the appointed decision maker made the decision that's a good 520 00:13:23,699 --> 00:13:23,709 maker made the decision that's a good 521 00:13:23,709 --> 00:13:25,199 maker made the decision that's a good point I'm glad you brought that up the 522 00:13:25,199 --> 00:13:25,209 point I'm glad you brought that up the 523 00:13:25,209 --> 00:13:28,319 point I'm glad you brought that up the the program manager is like the border 524 00:13:28,319 --> 00:13:28,329 the program manager is like the border 525 00:13:28,329 --> 00:13:30,300 the program manager is like the border tremor of the board he has 51 percent of 526 00:13:30,300 --> 00:13:30,310 tremor of the board he has 51 percent of 527 00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:31,379 tremor of the board he has 51 percent of the vote and I think that is the 528 00:13:31,379 --> 00:13:31,389 the vote and I think that is the 529 00:13:31,389 --> 00:13:32,970 the vote and I think that is the important thing that the program manager 530 00:13:32,970 --> 00:13:32,980 important thing that the program manager 531 00:13:32,980 --> 00:13:35,340 important thing that the program manager has to recognize that responsibility and 532 00:13:35,340 --> 00:13:35,350 has to recognize that responsibility and 533 00:13:35,350 --> 00:13:37,079 has to recognize that responsibility and he you do have to give him fifty one 534 00:13:37,079 --> 00:13:37,089 he you do have to give him fifty one 535 00:13:37,089 --> 00:13:42,269 he you do have to give him fifty one percent of the vote Erinn one of the 536 00:13:42,269 --> 00:13:42,279 percent of the vote Erinn one of the 537 00:13:42,279 --> 00:13:43,860 percent of the vote Erinn one of the things that might be interesting to 538 00:13:43,860 --> 00:13:43,870 things that might be interesting to 539 00:13:43,870 --> 00:13:47,069 things that might be interesting to discuss his wyjsc uses a matrix 540 00:13:47,069 --> 00:13:47,079 discuss his wyjsc uses a matrix 541 00:13:47,079 --> 00:13:48,930 discuss his wyjsc uses a matrix management system it was fashionable 542 00:13:48,930 --> 00:13:48,940 management system it was fashionable 543 00:13:48,940 --> 00:13:52,559 management system it was fashionable when we were formed in the 60s it's no 544 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:52,569 when we were formed in the 60s it's no 545 00:13:52,569 --> 00:13:55,139 when we were formed in the 60s it's no longer so fashionable in industry but we 546 00:13:55,139 --> 00:13:55,149 longer so fashionable in industry but we 547 00:13:55,149 --> 00:13:57,389 longer so fashionable in industry but we still use it well I think there's a 548 00:13:57,389 --> 00:13:57,399 still use it well I think there's a 549 00:13:57,399 --> 00:13:59,970 still use it well I think there's a several reasons why you basically use a 550 00:13:59,970 --> 00:13:59,980 several reasons why you basically use a 551 00:13:59,980 --> 00:14:01,740 several reasons why you basically use a matrix management you use a matrix 552 00:14:01,740 --> 00:14:01,750 matrix management you use a matrix 553 00:14:01,750 --> 00:14:08,699 matrix management you use a matrix management for one reason is if you want 554 00:14:08,699 --> 00:14:08,709 management for one reason is if you want 555 00:14:08,709 --> 00:14:09,960 management for one reason is if you want a good check and balance on the program 556 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:09,970 a good check and balance on the program 557 00:14:09,970 --> 00:14:12,449 a good check and balance on the program that's one reason why i use it in fact i 558 00:14:12,449 --> 00:14:12,459 that's one reason why i use it in fact i 559 00:14:12,459 --> 00:14:14,430 that's one reason why i use it in fact i would say that was the reason why we 560 00:14:14,430 --> 00:14:14,440 would say that was the reason why we 561 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,040 would say that was the reason why we originally used it was because we wanted 562 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:17,050 originally used it was because we wanted 563 00:14:17,050 --> 00:14:18,750 originally used it was because we wanted to have a check and balance of the 564 00:14:18,750 --> 00:14:18,760 to have a check and balance of the 565 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,170 to have a check and balance of the various parts of the institution on the 566 00:14:22,170 --> 00:14:22,180 various parts of the institution on the 567 00:14:22,180 --> 00:14:25,319 various parts of the institution on the program and that is a very good 568 00:14:25,319 --> 00:14:25,329 program and that is a very good 569 00:14:25,329 --> 00:14:27,990 program and that is a very good attribute to have the other reason why 570 00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:28,000 attribute to have the other reason why 571 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,780 attribute to have the other reason why use a matrix management is because you 572 00:14:30,780 --> 00:14:30,790 use a matrix management is because you 573 00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:33,000 use a matrix management is because you have multiple programs and that's the 574 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:33,010 have multiple programs and that's the 575 00:14:33,010 --> 00:14:34,860 have multiple programs and that's the way you handle multiple potent programs 576 00:14:34,860 --> 00:14:34,870 way you handle multiple potent programs 577 00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:36,750 way you handle multiple potent programs is going to matrix management now we're 578 00:14:36,750 --> 00:14:36,760 is going to matrix management now we're 579 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,030 is going to matrix management now we're going into have to use matrix management 580 00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:39,040 going into have to use matrix management 581 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:40,259 going into have to use matrix management for that reason but the original reason 582 00:14:40,259 --> 00:14:40,269 for that reason but the original reason 583 00:14:40,269 --> 00:14:41,850 for that reason but the original reason was more for the check in check and 584 00:14:41,850 --> 00:14:41,860 was more for the check in check and 585 00:14:41,860 --> 00:14:43,829 was more for the check in check and balance there are some disadvantages as 586 00:14:43,829 --> 00:14:43,839 balance there are some disadvantages as 587 00:14:43,839 --> 00:14:44,889 balance there are some disadvantages as you know make 588 00:14:44,889 --> 00:14:44,899 you know make 589 00:14:44,899 --> 00:14:47,590 you know make management you don't have the autonomy 590 00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:47,600 management you don't have the autonomy 591 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,090 management you don't have the autonomy the program doesn't have the complete 592 00:14:49,090 --> 00:14:49,100 the program doesn't have the complete 593 00:14:49,100 --> 00:14:51,429 the program doesn't have the complete autonomy and as a project manager I've 594 00:14:51,429 --> 00:14:51,439 autonomy and as a project manager I've 595 00:14:51,439 --> 00:14:53,170 autonomy and as a project manager I've got to admit I sometimes I was very 596 00:14:53,170 --> 00:14:53,180 got to admit I sometimes I was very 597 00:14:53,180 --> 00:14:54,970 got to admit I sometimes I was very frustrated with that but I've got to 598 00:14:54,970 --> 00:14:54,980 frustrated with that but I've got to 599 00:14:54,980 --> 00:14:56,739 frustrated with that but I've got to tell you that has a project manager I 600 00:14:56,739 --> 00:14:56,749 tell you that has a project manager I 601 00:14:56,749 --> 00:14:59,499 tell you that has a project manager I learned to love it because you do have 602 00:14:59,499 --> 00:14:59,509 learned to love it because you do have 603 00:14:59,509 --> 00:15:01,059 learned to love it because you do have that check and balance and I think that 604 00:15:01,059 --> 00:15:01,069 that check and balance and I think that 605 00:15:01,069 --> 00:15:02,980 that check and balance and I think that check and balance is important of course 606 00:15:02,980 --> 00:15:02,990 check and balance is important of course 607 00:15:02,990 --> 00:15:05,079 check and balance is important of course at the Johnson Space Center I think 608 00:15:05,079 --> 00:15:05,089 at the Johnson Space Center I think 609 00:15:05,089 --> 00:15:06,639 at the Johnson Space Center I think there's another reason why it could be 610 00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:06,649 there's another reason why it could be 611 00:15:06,649 --> 00:15:09,309 there's another reason why it could be very difficult for us to eliminate the 612 00:15:09,309 --> 00:15:09,319 very difficult for us to eliminate the 613 00:15:09,319 --> 00:15:11,199 very difficult for us to eliminate the matrix management even though some 614 00:15:11,199 --> 00:15:11,209 matrix management even though some 615 00:15:11,209 --> 00:15:12,850 matrix management even though some places are getting away from it is 616 00:15:12,850 --> 00:15:12,860 places are getting away from it is 617 00:15:12,860 --> 00:15:15,790 places are getting away from it is because we have the very intricate 618 00:15:15,790 --> 00:15:15,800 because we have the very intricate 619 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,189 because we have the very intricate interweaving of our operations activity 620 00:15:18,189 --> 00:15:18,199 interweaving of our operations activity 621 00:15:18,199 --> 00:15:21,519 interweaving of our operations activity with our design activity and I think 622 00:15:21,519 --> 00:15:21,529 with our design activity and I think 623 00:15:21,529 --> 00:15:22,749 with our design activity and I think that is probably the only way you're 624 00:15:22,749 --> 00:15:22,759 that is probably the only way you're 625 00:15:22,759 --> 00:15:24,040 that is probably the only way you're going to be really able to do that is 626 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:24,050 going to be really able to do that is 627 00:15:24,050 --> 00:15:25,509 going to be really able to do that is with a matrix management system here at 628 00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:25,519 with a matrix management system here at 629 00:15:25,519 --> 00:15:27,369 with a matrix management system here at the Johnson Space Center but I'm not 630 00:15:27,369 --> 00:15:27,379 the Johnson Space Center but I'm not 631 00:15:27,379 --> 00:15:29,879 the Johnson Space Center but I'm not sure I'll car that fits all all all 632 00:15:29,879 --> 00:15:29,889 sure I'll car that fits all all all 633 00:15:29,889 --> 00:15:32,139 sure I'll car that fits all all all organizations are companies today no 634 00:15:32,139 --> 00:15:32,149 organizations are companies today no 635 00:15:32,149 --> 00:15:36,129 organizations are companies today no Henry yet yeah i think you know in our 636 00:15:36,129 --> 00:15:36,139 Henry yet yeah i think you know in our 637 00:15:36,139 --> 00:15:39,009 Henry yet yeah i think you know in our situation matrix management gives us a 638 00:15:39,009 --> 00:15:39,019 situation matrix management gives us a 639 00:15:39,019 --> 00:15:42,519 situation matrix management gives us a great deal more flexibility to use the 640 00:15:42,519 --> 00:15:42,529 great deal more flexibility to use the 641 00:15:42,529 --> 00:15:45,220 great deal more flexibility to use the expertise that you have when you not you 642 00:15:45,220 --> 00:15:45,230 expertise that you have when you not you 643 00:15:45,230 --> 00:15:47,019 expertise that you have when you not you don't have a great deal of depth you can 644 00:15:47,019 --> 00:15:47,029 don't have a great deal of depth you can 645 00:15:47,029 --> 00:15:48,850 don't have a great deal of depth you can use the experts on a lot of different 646 00:15:48,850 --> 00:15:48,860 use the experts on a lot of different 647 00:15:48,860 --> 00:15:50,769 use the experts on a lot of different programs you can use them this week on 648 00:15:50,769 --> 00:15:50,779 programs you can use them this week on 649 00:15:50,779 --> 00:15:52,540 programs you can use them this week on this program next week on this program 650 00:15:52,540 --> 00:15:52,550 this program next week on this program 651 00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:54,579 this program next week on this program and next month on that program over 652 00:15:54,579 --> 00:15:54,589 and next month on that program over 653 00:15:54,589 --> 00:15:56,889 and next month on that program over there as problems arise in each one of 654 00:15:56,889 --> 00:15:56,899 there as problems arise in each one of 655 00:15:56,899 --> 00:15:59,530 there as problems arise in each one of those those programs they usually don't 656 00:15:59,530 --> 00:15:59,540 those those programs they usually don't 657 00:15:59,540 --> 00:16:01,780 those those programs they usually don't happen at the same time and I think 658 00:16:01,780 --> 00:16:01,790 happen at the same time and I think 659 00:16:01,790 --> 00:16:03,579 happen at the same time and I think there's another message here about the 660 00:16:03,579 --> 00:16:03,589 there's another message here about the 661 00:16:03,589 --> 00:16:07,689 there's another message here about the management that any organization can 662 00:16:07,689 --> 00:16:07,699 management that any organization can 663 00:16:07,699 --> 00:16:10,540 management that any organization can work so long is this the will of the 664 00:16:10,540 --> 00:16:10,550 work so long is this the will of the 665 00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:12,759 work so long is this the will of the people and the will of all of the people 666 00:16:12,759 --> 00:16:12,769 people and the will of all of the people 667 00:16:12,769 --> 00:16:15,549 people and the will of all of the people to want it to work I think that's one of 668 00:16:15,549 --> 00:16:15,559 to want it to work I think that's one of 669 00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:17,230 to want it to work I think that's one of the key ingredients to make an 670 00:16:17,230 --> 00:16:17,240 the key ingredients to make an 671 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,869 the key ingredients to make an organization work the best organization 672 00:16:19,869 --> 00:16:19,879 organization work the best organization 673 00:16:19,879 --> 00:16:23,350 organization work the best organization in the world will not work if the people 674 00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:23,360 in the world will not work if the people 675 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,900 in the world will not work if the people don't want it to work and I think that's 676 00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:25,910 don't want it to work and I think that's 677 00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:27,189 don't want it to work and I think that's one of the things that we've been able 678 00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:27,199 one of the things that we've been able 679 00:16:27,199 --> 00:16:31,629 one of the things that we've been able to do here is to keep arrow body with 680 00:16:31,629 --> 00:16:31,639 to do here is to keep arrow body with 681 00:16:31,639 --> 00:16:34,299 to do here is to keep arrow body with with a sense of responsibility as sense 682 00:16:34,299 --> 00:16:34,309 with a sense of responsibility as sense 683 00:16:34,309 --> 00:16:37,299 with a sense of responsibility as sense to do the wont to do the job or feeling 684 00:16:37,299 --> 00:16:37,309 to do the wont to do the job or feeling 685 00:16:37,309 --> 00:16:39,939 to do the wont to do the job or feeling responsible for making the hardware work 686 00:16:39,939 --> 00:16:39,949 responsible for making the hardware work 687 00:16:39,949 --> 00:16:42,340 responsible for making the hardware work and that's been a key ingredient to 688 00:16:42,340 --> 00:16:42,350 and that's been a key ingredient to 689 00:16:42,350 --> 00:16:44,799 and that's been a key ingredient to making matrix manage my work here at 690 00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:44,809 making matrix manage my work here at 691 00:16:44,809 --> 00:16:46,359 making matrix manage my work here at this Center so I'd like to you know I 692 00:16:46,359 --> 00:16:46,369 this Center so I'd like to you know I 693 00:16:46,369 --> 00:16:47,199 this Center so I'd like to you know I don't care what you have to say because 694 00:16:47,199 --> 00:16:47,209 don't care what you have to say because 695 00:16:47,209 --> 00:16:48,639 don't care what you have to say because I know if you studied management systems 696 00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:48,649 I know if you studied management systems 697 00:16:48,649 --> 00:16:49,840 I know if you studied management systems for some time and I'd like to hear what 698 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:49,850 for some time and I'd like to hear what 699 00:16:49,850 --> 00:16:54,569 for some time and I'd like to hear what you had to say that well I think that 700 00:16:54,569 --> 00:16:54,579 you had to say that well I think that 701 00:16:54,579 --> 00:16:56,999 you had to say that well I think that as a government organization responsible 702 00:16:56,999 --> 00:16:57,009 as a government organization responsible 703 00:16:57,009 --> 00:16:59,850 as a government organization responsible for the initiation and the continuing 704 00:16:59,850 --> 00:16:59,860 for the initiation and the continuing 705 00:16:59,860 --> 00:17:04,169 for the initiation and the continuing management of programs we do not have as 706 00:17:04,169 --> 00:17:04,179 management of programs we do not have as 707 00:17:04,179 --> 00:17:07,169 management of programs we do not have as narrow and sharper focus as you can 708 00:17:07,169 --> 00:17:07,179 narrow and sharper focus as you can 709 00:17:07,179 --> 00:17:10,470 narrow and sharper focus as you can create in a business enterprise and I 710 00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:10,480 create in a business enterprise and I 711 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,350 create in a business enterprise and I think the complexity of our task forces 712 00:17:13,350 --> 00:17:13,360 think the complexity of our task forces 713 00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:15,120 think the complexity of our task forces us into a matrix meaning that's the 714 00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:15,130 us into a matrix meaning that's the 715 00:17:15,130 --> 00:17:18,799 us into a matrix meaning that's the operations element that I was gone yes 716 00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:18,809 717 00:17:18,809 --> 00:17:22,699 in the context and of this management 718 00:17:22,699 --> 00:17:22,709 in the context and of this management 719 00:17:22,709 --> 00:17:26,639 in the context and of this management structure how would you deal with the 720 00:17:26,639 --> 00:17:26,649 structure how would you deal with the 721 00:17:26,649 --> 00:17:29,399 structure how would you deal with the various elements of cost schedule and 722 00:17:29,399 --> 00:17:29,409 various elements of cost schedule and 723 00:17:29,409 --> 00:17:32,879 various elements of cost schedule and performance as they are embodied in the 724 00:17:32,879 --> 00:17:32,889 performance as they are embodied in the 725 00:17:32,889 --> 00:17:34,680 performance as they are embodied in the various functional elements that work 726 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:34,690 various functional elements that work 727 00:17:34,690 --> 00:17:37,620 various functional elements that work with you well of course you hit the key 728 00:17:37,620 --> 00:17:37,630 with you well of course you hit the key 729 00:17:37,630 --> 00:17:40,740 with you well of course you hit the key of the whole program management theme of 730 00:17:40,740 --> 00:17:40,750 of the whole program management theme of 731 00:17:40,750 --> 00:17:43,919 of the whole program management theme of the balance of performance cost and 732 00:17:43,919 --> 00:17:43,929 the balance of performance cost and 733 00:17:43,929 --> 00:17:46,769 the balance of performance cost and schedule that is a continuing trade and 734 00:17:46,769 --> 00:17:46,779 schedule that is a continuing trade and 735 00:17:46,779 --> 00:17:49,110 schedule that is a continuing trade and that is the you might say that is the 736 00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:49,120 that is the you might say that is the 737 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:51,180 that is the you might say that is the life a project or program manager lives 738 00:17:51,180 --> 00:17:51,190 life a project or program manager lives 739 00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:53,669 life a project or program manager lives with from the from the conception of the 740 00:17:53,669 --> 00:17:53,679 with from the from the conception of the 741 00:17:53,679 --> 00:17:56,490 with from the from the conception of the program to its end it's a continuing 742 00:17:56,490 --> 00:17:56,500 program to its end it's a continuing 743 00:17:56,500 --> 00:17:59,580 program to its end it's a continuing trade off and you can ever you can never 744 00:17:59,580 --> 00:17:59,590 trade off and you can ever you can never 745 00:17:59,590 --> 00:18:01,710 trade off and you can ever you can never solve you cannot marry everybody happy 746 00:18:01,710 --> 00:18:01,720 solve you cannot marry everybody happy 747 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,690 solve you cannot marry everybody happy but maybe we'll never make everybody 748 00:18:03,690 --> 00:18:03,700 but maybe we'll never make everybody 749 00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:05,580 but maybe we'll never make everybody happy with those three elements let's 750 00:18:05,580 --> 00:18:05,590 happy with those three elements let's 751 00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:07,350 happy with those three elements let's continue trade off you know I used to 752 00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:07,360 continue trade off you know I used to 753 00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:09,509 continue trade off you know I used to use a very simple analogy when I used to 754 00:18:09,509 --> 00:18:09,519 use a very simple analogy when I used to 755 00:18:09,519 --> 00:18:11,370 use a very simple analogy when I used to used to work with people they've come to 756 00:18:11,370 --> 00:18:11,380 used to work with people they've come to 757 00:18:11,380 --> 00:18:12,840 used to work with people they've come to my office and I'd say okay now what I 758 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:12,850 my office and I'd say okay now what I 759 00:18:12,850 --> 00:18:15,539 my office and I'd say okay now what I want you to do is help me I would like 760 00:18:15,539 --> 00:18:15,549 want you to do is help me I would like 761 00:18:15,549 --> 00:18:18,480 want you to do is help me I would like you to play like for a moment that 762 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:18,490 you to play like for a moment that 763 00:18:18,490 --> 00:18:21,419 you to play like for a moment that you're in business for yourself and you 764 00:18:21,419 --> 00:18:21,429 you're in business for yourself and you 765 00:18:21,429 --> 00:18:24,509 you're in business for yourself and you can't afford to to give it to produce a 766 00:18:24,509 --> 00:18:24,519 can't afford to to give it to produce a 767 00:18:24,519 --> 00:18:25,980 can't afford to to give it to produce a bad product so you want to you want to 768 00:18:25,980 --> 00:18:25,990 bad product so you want to you want to 769 00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:28,019 bad product so you want to you want to improve it on the other hand you're in 770 00:18:28,019 --> 00:18:28,029 improve it on the other hand you're in 771 00:18:28,029 --> 00:18:30,330 improve it on the other hand you're in business to make a profit and you can't 772 00:18:30,330 --> 00:18:30,340 business to make a profit and you can't 773 00:18:30,340 --> 00:18:31,830 business to make a profit and you can't afford to put all this money into it now 774 00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:31,840 afford to put all this money into it now 775 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,080 afford to put all this money into it now now help me figure out how to do that 776 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:34,090 now help me figure out how to do that 777 00:18:34,090 --> 00:18:36,450 now help me figure out how to do that how to get that product out on time so I 778 00:18:36,450 --> 00:18:36,460 how to get that product out on time so I 779 00:18:36,460 --> 00:18:38,310 how to get that product out on time so I really think it boils down to that that 780 00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:38,320 really think it boils down to that that 781 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:39,299 really think it boils down to that that one thing though I think you can't 782 00:18:39,299 --> 00:18:39,309 one thing though I think you can't 783 00:18:39,309 --> 00:18:41,279 one thing though I think you can't afford to do in a man program and I 784 00:18:41,279 --> 00:18:41,289 afford to do in a man program and I 785 00:18:41,289 --> 00:18:43,259 afford to do in a man program and I think it's true in the any unmanned 786 00:18:43,259 --> 00:18:43,269 think it's true in the any unmanned 787 00:18:43,269 --> 00:18:45,480 think it's true in the any unmanned programs too is you can't afford a 788 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:45,490 programs too is you can't afford a 789 00:18:45,490 --> 00:18:47,340 programs too is you can't afford a failure failures are very expensive and 790 00:18:47,340 --> 00:18:47,350 failure failures are very expensive and 791 00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:49,620 failure failures are very expensive and so other safety and reliability and 792 00:18:49,620 --> 00:18:49,630 so other safety and reliability and 793 00:18:49,630 --> 00:18:51,450 so other safety and reliability and quality has got to be maintained in that 794 00:18:51,450 --> 00:18:51,460 quality has got to be maintained in that 795 00:18:51,460 --> 00:18:53,279 quality has got to be maintained in that and so and there's ways to do that and 796 00:18:53,279 --> 00:18:53,289 and so and there's ways to do that and 797 00:18:53,289 --> 00:18:55,769 and so and there's ways to do that and you can still balance off those three 798 00:18:55,769 --> 00:18:55,779 you can still balance off those three 799 00:18:55,779 --> 00:18:57,480 you can still balance off those three parameters and still get a very high 800 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:57,490 parameters and still get a very high 801 00:18:57,490 --> 00:19:00,570 parameters and still get a very high quality high quality product reliable 802 00:19:00,570 --> 00:19:00,580 quality high quality product reliable 803 00:19:00,580 --> 00:19:02,760 quality high quality product reliable product and safe product so it is a 804 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:02,770 product and safe product so it is a 805 00:19:02,770 --> 00:19:05,639 product and safe product so it is a tough job and there is no closed-form 806 00:19:05,639 --> 00:19:05,649 tough job and there is no closed-form 807 00:19:05,649 --> 00:19:08,110 tough job and there is no closed-form solution there's by there 808 00:19:08,110 --> 00:19:08,120 solution there's by there 809 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:09,670 solution there's by there let me believe me there are is no 810 00:19:09,670 --> 00:19:09,680 let me believe me there are is no 811 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,010 let me believe me there are is no closed-form solution to to that 812 00:19:12,010 --> 00:19:12,020 closed-form solution to to that 813 00:19:12,020 --> 00:19:14,080 closed-form solution to to that trade-off it is a continuing continuing 814 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:14,090 trade-off it is a continuing continuing 815 00:19:14,090 --> 00:19:17,830 trade-off it is a continuing continuing trade of those three parameters we've 816 00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:17,840 trade of those three parameters we've 817 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,510 trade of those three parameters we've talked a good bit about engineering 818 00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:19,520 talked a good bit about engineering 819 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,970 talked a good bit about engineering could you talk a little bit about how 820 00:19:21,970 --> 00:19:21,980 could you talk a little bit about how 821 00:19:21,980 --> 00:19:24,940 could you talk a little bit about how you use your program control and your 822 00:19:24,940 --> 00:19:24,950 you use your program control and your 823 00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:27,490 you use your program control and your business analysis people yeah let me do 824 00:19:27,490 --> 00:19:27,500 business analysis people yeah let me do 825 00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:29,800 business analysis people yeah let me do that and let me do that in the context 826 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:29,810 that and let me do that in the context 827 00:19:29,810 --> 00:19:34,000 that and let me do that in the context of a term I call avoiding pitfalls if 828 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:34,010 of a term I call avoiding pitfalls if 829 00:19:34,010 --> 00:19:36,130 of a term I call avoiding pitfalls if you go back and you look at history of 830 00:19:36,130 --> 00:19:36,140 you go back and you look at history of 831 00:19:36,140 --> 00:19:38,080 you go back and you look at history of program managers and project managers 832 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:38,090 program managers and project managers 833 00:19:38,090 --> 00:19:40,600 program managers and project managers the first pitfall the first thing that 834 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:40,610 the first pitfall the first thing that 835 00:19:40,610 --> 00:19:41,680 the first pitfall the first thing that happens is when you become a project 836 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:41,690 happens is when you become a project 837 00:19:41,690 --> 00:19:43,270 happens is when you become a project manager you have you for you you know 838 00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:43,280 manager you have you for you you know 839 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:44,290 manager you have you for you you know that's the greatest thing that ever 840 00:19:44,290 --> 00:19:44,300 that's the greatest thing that ever 841 00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:46,600 that's the greatest thing that ever happened to you in fact my wife used to 842 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:46,610 happened to you in fact my wife used to 843 00:19:46,610 --> 00:19:47,740 happened to you in fact my wife used to say the greatest thing could happen Erin 844 00:19:47,740 --> 00:19:47,750 say the greatest thing could happen Erin 845 00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:48,970 say the greatest thing could happen Erin is the day you became the auger project 846 00:19:48,970 --> 00:19:48,980 is the day you became the auger project 847 00:19:48,980 --> 00:19:50,980 is the day you became the auger project manager and then from then on it was is 848 00:19:50,980 --> 00:19:50,990 manager and then from then on it was is 849 00:19:50,990 --> 00:19:54,520 manager and then from then on it was is really tough but it is the before you 850 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:54,530 really tough but it is the before you 851 00:19:54,530 --> 00:19:56,350 really tough but it is the before you become but then you got to avoid the 852 00:19:56,350 --> 00:19:56,360 become but then you got to avoid the 853 00:19:56,360 --> 00:19:58,780 become but then you got to avoid the pitfalls in the first pitfall you really 854 00:19:58,780 --> 00:19:58,790 pitfalls in the first pitfall you really 855 00:19:58,790 --> 00:20:01,840 pitfalls in the first pitfall you really have it as a project manager is normally 856 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:01,850 have it as a project manager is normally 857 00:20:01,850 --> 00:20:04,300 have it as a project manager is normally cost overruns that's the first thing you 858 00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:04,310 cost overruns that's the first thing you 859 00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:07,090 cost overruns that's the first thing you normally see is cost overruns the second 860 00:20:07,090 --> 00:20:07,100 normally see is cost overruns the second 861 00:20:07,100 --> 00:20:09,760 normally see is cost overruns the second problem a project manager pitfall the 862 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:09,770 problem a project manager pitfall the 863 00:20:09,770 --> 00:20:12,010 problem a project manager pitfall the project manager has a schedule and then 864 00:20:12,010 --> 00:20:12,020 project manager has a schedule and then 865 00:20:12,020 --> 00:20:14,710 project manager has a schedule and then you you saw normally you'll you'll solve 866 00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:14,720 you you saw normally you'll you'll solve 867 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,190 you you saw normally you'll you'll solve your they let solve the the cost problem 868 00:20:18,190 --> 00:20:18,200 your they let solve the the cost problem 869 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,410 your they let solve the the cost problem by either replacing the project manager 870 00:20:20,410 --> 00:20:20,420 by either replacing the project manager 871 00:20:20,420 --> 00:20:21,700 by either replacing the project manager or somebody figuring out how to do it 872 00:20:21,700 --> 00:20:21,710 or somebody figuring out how to do it 873 00:20:21,710 --> 00:20:24,250 or somebody figuring out how to do it and then the schedule gets the is the 874 00:20:24,250 --> 00:20:24,260 and then the schedule gets the is the 875 00:20:24,260 --> 00:20:25,960 and then the schedule gets the is the problem you have to run into and then of 876 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:25,970 problem you have to run into and then of 877 00:20:25,970 --> 00:20:27,400 problem you have to run into and then of course it becomes the performance 878 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:27,410 course it becomes the performance 879 00:20:27,410 --> 00:20:29,170 course it becomes the performance problems of getting it done and getting 880 00:20:29,170 --> 00:20:29,180 problems of getting it done and getting 881 00:20:29,180 --> 00:20:31,240 problems of getting it done and getting a good product but getting back to your 882 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:31,250 a good product but getting back to your 883 00:20:31,250 --> 00:20:33,010 a good product but getting back to your specific question I think in that 884 00:20:33,010 --> 00:20:33,020 specific question I think in that 885 00:20:33,020 --> 00:20:37,270 specific question I think in that context the project control is the 886 00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:37,280 context the project control is the 887 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,490 context the project control is the important element in helping you avoid 888 00:20:39,490 --> 00:20:39,500 important element in helping you avoid 889 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:42,790 important element in helping you avoid those pitfalls you need to use your 890 00:20:42,790 --> 00:20:42,800 those pitfalls you need to use your 891 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,610 those pitfalls you need to use your contract as a good tool you need to have 892 00:20:45,610 --> 00:20:45,620 contract as a good tool you need to have 893 00:20:45,620 --> 00:20:48,070 contract as a good tool you need to have the project control office help you 894 00:20:48,070 --> 00:20:48,080 the project control office help you 895 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,140 the project control office help you manage that contract you need to have a 896 00:20:50,140 --> 00:20:50,150 manage that contract you need to have a 897 00:20:50,150 --> 00:20:53,290 manage that contract you need to have a good configuration control you need to 898 00:20:53,290 --> 00:20:53,300 good configuration control you need to 899 00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:55,510 good configuration control you need to be able to have them give you a good 900 00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:55,520 be able to have them give you a good 901 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,520 be able to have them give you a good budget estimate keeping up with your 902 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:57,530 budget estimate keeping up with your 903 00:20:57,530 --> 00:20:59,830 budget estimate keeping up with your schedules and if you do that give you 904 00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:59,840 schedules and if you do that give you 905 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,040 schedules and if you do that give you that insight those are the ways over and 906 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:03,050 that insight those are the ways over and 907 00:21:03,050 --> 00:21:04,300 that insight those are the ways over and above the technical as you pointed out 908 00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:04,310 above the technical as you pointed out 909 00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:06,010 above the technical as you pointed out those are the ways that you can 910 00:21:06,010 --> 00:21:06,020 those are the ways that you can 911 00:21:06,020 --> 00:21:08,620 those are the ways that you can potentially you have the best chance of 912 00:21:08,620 --> 00:21:08,630 potentially you have the best chance of 913 00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:10,600 potentially you have the best chance of avoiding those pitfalls and I think it's 914 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:10,610 avoiding those pitfalls and I think it's 915 00:21:10,610 --> 00:21:12,040 avoiding those pitfalls and I think it's extremely important element of it 916 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:12,050 extremely important element of it 917 00:21:12,050 --> 00:21:14,440 extremely important element of it engineering is good and is important but 918 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:14,450 engineering is good and is important but 919 00:21:14,450 --> 00:21:16,360 engineering is good and is important but believe me the business management end 920 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:16,370 believe me the business management end 921 00:21:16,370 --> 00:21:19,120 believe me the business management end of the program is vitally important to 922 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:19,130 of the program is vitally important to 923 00:21:19,130 --> 00:21:22,200 of the program is vitally important to the success of a program 924 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:22,210 the success of a program 925 00:21:22,210 --> 00:21:26,770 the success of a program and may perhaps you and Aaron could 926 00:21:26,770 --> 00:21:26,780 and may perhaps you and Aaron could 927 00:21:26,780 --> 00:21:28,960 and may perhaps you and Aaron could speak to the subject of what should be 928 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:28,970 speak to the subject of what should be 929 00:21:28,970 --> 00:21:32,050 speak to the subject of what should be the proper relationship between the 930 00:21:32,050 --> 00:21:32,060 the proper relationship between the 931 00:21:32,060 --> 00:21:34,060 the proper relationship between the government engineering organization and 932 00:21:34,060 --> 00:21:34,070 government engineering organization and 933 00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:36,430 government engineering organization and program management organization and its 934 00:21:36,430 --> 00:21:36,440 program management organization and its 935 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,730 program management organization and its contractors yeah but could I come back 936 00:21:39,730 --> 00:21:39,740 contractors yeah but could I come back 937 00:21:39,740 --> 00:21:41,380 contractors yeah but could I come back to the last question for just a minute 938 00:21:41,380 --> 00:21:41,390 to the last question for just a minute 939 00:21:41,390 --> 00:21:44,620 to the last question for just a minute on program control you know one of the 940 00:21:44,620 --> 00:21:44,630 on program control you know one of the 941 00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:47,220 on program control you know one of the things that you find about engineers is 942 00:21:47,220 --> 00:21:47,230 things that you find about engineers is 943 00:21:47,230 --> 00:21:50,830 things that you find about engineers is that engineers for some reason do not 944 00:21:50,830 --> 00:21:50,840 that engineers for some reason do not 945 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,890 that engineers for some reason do not like to deal with budgets they do not 946 00:21:53,890 --> 00:21:53,900 like to deal with budgets they do not 947 00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:57,280 like to deal with budgets they do not like to deal with costs they'll deal 948 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:57,290 like to deal with costs they'll deal 949 00:21:57,290 --> 00:21:59,740 like to deal with costs they'll deal with schedules fairly well but they 950 00:21:59,740 --> 00:21:59,750 with schedules fairly well but they 951 00:21:59,750 --> 00:22:01,690 with schedules fairly well but they don't like to deal with budgets and 952 00:22:01,690 --> 00:22:01,700 don't like to deal with budgets and 953 00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:04,750 don't like to deal with budgets and costs and frequently don't keep track of 954 00:22:04,750 --> 00:22:04,760 costs and frequently don't keep track of 955 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,620 costs and frequently don't keep track of the effort that's being produced per 956 00:22:08,620 --> 00:22:08,630 the effort that's being produced per 957 00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:10,060 the effort that's being produced per length of time that they're working on 958 00:22:10,060 --> 00:22:10,070 length of time that they're working on 959 00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:12,040 length of time that they're working on it and their costs will get out of hand 960 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:12,050 it and their costs will get out of hand 961 00:22:12,050 --> 00:22:14,290 it and their costs will get out of hand and I think that's one of the key areas 962 00:22:14,290 --> 00:22:14,300 and I think that's one of the key areas 963 00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:16,420 and I think that's one of the key areas where a good program control office 964 00:22:16,420 --> 00:22:16,430 where a good program control office 965 00:22:16,430 --> 00:22:18,820 where a good program control office comes into play is they tend to keep the 966 00:22:18,820 --> 00:22:18,830 comes into play is they tend to keep the 967 00:22:18,830 --> 00:22:24,610 comes into play is they tend to keep the schedule the budget and and that balance 968 00:22:24,610 --> 00:22:24,620 schedule the budget and and that balance 969 00:22:24,620 --> 00:22:28,870 schedule the budget and and that balance of the program in proper focus okay you 970 00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:28,880 of the program in proper focus okay you 971 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,490 of the program in proper focus okay you want me to take a shot linea let me 972 00:22:30,490 --> 00:22:30,500 want me to take a shot linea let me 973 00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:31,900 want me to take a shot linea let me answer that the other question because I 974 00:22:31,900 --> 00:22:31,910 answer that the other question because I 975 00:22:31,910 --> 00:22:34,840 answer that the other question because I didn't think about it like I think if 976 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:34,850 didn't think about it like I think if 977 00:22:34,850 --> 00:22:39,880 didn't think about it like I think if you if you go back to the Apollo 20 for 978 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:39,890 you if you go back to the Apollo 20 for 979 00:22:39,890 --> 00:22:42,400 you if you go back to the Apollo 20 for fire and I this thing all sticks in my 980 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:42,410 fire and I this thing all sticks in my 981 00:22:42,410 --> 00:22:44,590 fire and I this thing all sticks in my mind there was a statement in the report 982 00:22:44,590 --> 00:22:44,600 mind there was a statement in the report 983 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,610 mind there was a statement in the report that said that I'll paraphrase it that 984 00:22:47,610 --> 00:22:47,620 that said that I'll paraphrase it that 985 00:22:47,620 --> 00:22:52,060 that said that I'll paraphrase it that the doing spaceflight human spaceflight 986 00:22:52,060 --> 00:22:52,070 the doing spaceflight human spaceflight 987 00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:54,700 the doing spaceflight human spaceflight you have to overcome a hostile external 988 00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:54,710 you have to overcome a hostile external 989 00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:57,340 you have to overcome a hostile external environment and to overcome a hostile 990 00:22:57,340 --> 00:22:57,350 environment and to overcome a hostile 991 00:22:57,350 --> 00:22:58,480 environment and to overcome a hostile external environment you need teamwork 992 00:22:58,480 --> 00:22:58,490 external environment you need teamwork 993 00:22:58,490 --> 00:23:00,970 external environment you need teamwork so I think that's the thing you need a 994 00:23:00,970 --> 00:23:00,980 so I think that's the thing you need a 995 00:23:00,980 --> 00:23:03,870 so I think that's the thing you need a teamwork between you're the contractor 996 00:23:03,870 --> 00:23:03,880 teamwork between you're the contractor 997 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,100 teamwork between you're the contractor and the government I don't think there's 998 00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:06,110 and the government I don't think there's 999 00:23:06,110 --> 00:23:07,360 and the government I don't think there's any question about that that you need 1000 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:07,370 any question about that that you need 1001 00:23:07,370 --> 00:23:10,960 any question about that that you need teamwork on the other hand you need to 1002 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:10,970 teamwork on the other hand you need to 1003 00:23:10,970 --> 00:23:14,410 teamwork on the other hand you need to have a plan an implementation plan that 1004 00:23:14,410 --> 00:23:14,420 have a plan an implementation plan that 1005 00:23:14,420 --> 00:23:18,070 have a plan an implementation plan that you can award the contract contractor 1006 00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:18,080 you can award the contract contractor 1007 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,750 you can award the contract contractor when he does a good job but she also 1008 00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:19,760 when he does a good job but she also 1009 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,340 when he does a good job but she also need to penalize the contractor when he 1010 00:23:21,340 --> 00:23:21,350 need to penalize the contractor when he 1011 00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:23,470 need to penalize the contractor when he does a bad job so I do think you need 1012 00:23:23,470 --> 00:23:23,480 does a bad job so I do think you need 1013 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,320 does a bad job so I do think you need teamwork and to get a good safe reliable 1014 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:26,330 teamwork and to get a good safe reliable 1015 00:23:26,330 --> 00:23:28,810 teamwork and to get a good safe reliable efficient product but she do need a way 1016 00:23:28,810 --> 00:23:28,820 efficient product but she do need a way 1017 00:23:28,820 --> 00:23:30,670 efficient product but she do need a way to penalize him when he doesn't do a 1018 00:23:30,670 --> 00:23:30,680 to penalize him when he doesn't do a 1019 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:31,270 to penalize him when he doesn't do a good job 1020 00:23:31,270 --> 00:23:31,280 good job 1021 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:36,190 good job morning leaders yeah the only thing I 1022 00:23:36,190 --> 00:23:36,200 morning leaders yeah the only thing I 1023 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:37,840 morning leaders yeah the only thing I could add to that Aaron would be that 1024 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:37,850 could add to that Aaron would be that 1025 00:23:37,850 --> 00:23:40,780 could add to that Aaron would be that that you both need a good understanding 1026 00:23:40,780 --> 00:23:40,790 that you both need a good understanding 1027 00:23:40,790 --> 00:23:42,760 that you both need a good understanding of the product that you're going to 1028 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:42,770 of the product that you're going to 1029 00:23:42,770 --> 00:23:46,300 of the product that you're going to prove your son you know you both need to 1030 00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:46,310 prove your son you know you both need to 1031 00:23:46,310 --> 00:23:48,790 prove your son you know you both need to be working toward the same game plan and 1032 00:23:48,790 --> 00:23:48,800 be working toward the same game plan and 1033 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,070 be working toward the same game plan and both parties need to understand that 1034 00:23:51,070 --> 00:23:51,080 both parties need to understand that 1035 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,830 both parties need to understand that very very clearly and that's what you 1036 00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:53,840 very very clearly and that's what you 1037 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,080 very very clearly and that's what you mean by teamwork it's like that but you 1038 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:56,090 mean by teamwork it's like that but you 1039 00:23:56,090 --> 00:23:58,330 mean by teamwork it's like that but you got to have that it's very very critical 1040 00:23:58,330 --> 00:23:58,340 got to have that it's very very critical 1041 00:23:58,340 --> 00:24:00,130 got to have that it's very very critical and also to the teamwork I mean the fact 1042 00:24:00,130 --> 00:24:00,140 and also to the teamwork I mean the fact 1043 00:24:00,140 --> 00:24:02,140 and also to the teamwork I mean the fact that the way NASA operates I think 1044 00:24:02,140 --> 00:24:02,150 that the way NASA operates I think 1045 00:24:02,150 --> 00:24:04,300 that the way NASA operates I think that's typical at all centers we do 1046 00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:04,310 that's typical at all centers we do 1047 00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:06,910 that's typical at all centers we do pride ourselves and I think we justified 1048 00:24:06,910 --> 00:24:06,920 pride ourselves and I think we justified 1049 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,490 pride ourselves and I think we justified be so that we do have a technical 1050 00:24:09,490 --> 00:24:09,500 be so that we do have a technical 1051 00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:11,940 be so that we do have a technical capability and technical excellence and 1052 00:24:11,940 --> 00:24:11,950 capability and technical excellence and 1053 00:24:11,950 --> 00:24:14,770 capability and technical excellence and many times we have the technical 1054 00:24:14,770 --> 00:24:14,780 many times we have the technical 1055 00:24:14,780 --> 00:24:17,170 many times we have the technical capability because of our facilities 1056 00:24:17,170 --> 00:24:17,180 capability because of our facilities 1057 00:24:17,180 --> 00:24:18,760 capability because of our facilities because of the the way we have done 1058 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:18,770 because of the the way we have done 1059 00:24:18,770 --> 00:24:21,490 because of the the way we have done things that our technical t I think and 1060 00:24:21,490 --> 00:24:21,500 things that our technical t I think and 1061 00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:24,160 things that our technical t I think and sometimes it tends to be in selected 1062 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:24,170 sometimes it tends to be in selected 1063 00:24:24,170 --> 00:24:26,020 sometimes it tends to be in selected areas greater than some of our 1064 00:24:26,020 --> 00:24:26,030 areas greater than some of our 1065 00:24:26,030 --> 00:24:27,730 areas greater than some of our contractors in some areas our 1066 00:24:27,730 --> 00:24:27,740 contractors in some areas our 1067 00:24:27,740 --> 00:24:29,260 contractors in some areas our contractors have better technical 1068 00:24:29,260 --> 00:24:29,270 contractors have better technical 1069 00:24:29,270 --> 00:24:31,390 contractors have better technical capability then then we have and I think 1070 00:24:31,390 --> 00:24:31,400 capability then then we have and I think 1071 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,700 capability then then we have and I think we need to know how to utilize both of 1072 00:24:33,700 --> 00:24:33,710 we need to know how to utilize both of 1073 00:24:33,710 --> 00:24:35,860 we need to know how to utilize both of those two full advantage that's 1074 00:24:35,860 --> 00:24:35,870 those two full advantage that's 1075 00:24:35,870 --> 00:24:37,840 those two full advantage that's especially true hearing in those areas 1076 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:37,850 especially true hearing in those areas 1077 00:24:37,850 --> 00:24:39,250 especially true hearing in those areas where we've had the opportunity to go 1078 00:24:39,250 --> 00:24:39,260 where we've had the opportunity to go 1079 00:24:39,260 --> 00:24:41,200 where we've had the opportunity to go through several programs and sequence 1080 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:41,210 through several programs and sequence 1081 00:24:41,210 --> 00:24:43,090 through several programs and sequence and then you got another contractor 1082 00:24:43,090 --> 00:24:43,100 and then you got another contractor 1083 00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:47,980 and then you got another contractor that's a new honor on a straight Aaron 1084 00:24:47,980 --> 00:24:47,990 that's a new honor on a straight Aaron 1085 00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:49,630 that's a new honor on a straight Aaron how would you like to talk for a moment 1086 00:24:49,630 --> 00:24:49,640 how would you like to talk for a moment 1087 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,400 how would you like to talk for a moment or two to the subject of the 1088 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:51,410 or two to the subject of the 1089 00:24:51,410 --> 00:24:53,470 or two to the subject of the relationship between the program office 1090 00:24:53,470 --> 00:24:53,480 relationship between the program office 1091 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,290 relationship between the program office and the institution of the center itself 1092 00:24:56,290 --> 00:24:56,300 and the institution of the center itself 1093 00:24:56,300 --> 00:24:59,530 and the institution of the center itself well of course with a with a matrix 1094 00:24:59,530 --> 00:24:59,540 well of course with a with a matrix 1095 00:24:59,540 --> 00:25:01,960 well of course with a with a matrix management system they're very 1096 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:01,970 management system they're very 1097 00:25:01,970 --> 00:25:04,900 management system they're very intertwined you know you can always 1098 00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:04,910 intertwined you know you can always 1099 00:25:04,910 --> 00:25:07,480 intertwined you know you can always argue are the programs here to serve the 1100 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:07,490 argue are the programs here to serve the 1101 00:25:07,490 --> 00:25:08,860 argue are the programs here to serve the for the institution or is the 1102 00:25:08,860 --> 00:25:08,870 for the institution or is the 1103 00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:10,960 for the institution or is the institution here to serve the program 1104 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:10,970 institution here to serve the program 1105 00:25:10,970 --> 00:25:13,630 institution here to serve the program and i think it's it's a little bit of 1106 00:25:13,630 --> 00:25:13,640 and i think it's it's a little bit of 1107 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,660 and i think it's it's a little bit of both I think that as we stated before 1108 00:25:18,660 --> 00:25:18,670 both I think that as we stated before 1109 00:25:18,670 --> 00:25:22,470 both I think that as we stated before there is a support from the institution 1110 00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:22,480 there is a support from the institution 1111 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,680 there is a support from the institution to the to the program if you look at the 1112 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:26,690 to the to the program if you look at the 1113 00:25:26,690 --> 00:25:28,390 to the to the program if you look at the Johnson Space Center specifically we 1114 00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:28,400 Johnson Space Center specifically we 1115 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:29,440 Johnson Space Center specifically we have basically an engineering 1116 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:29,450 have basically an engineering 1117 00:25:29,450 --> 00:25:30,970 have basically an engineering organization under Henry we have an 1118 00:25:30,970 --> 00:25:30,980 organization under Henry we have an 1119 00:25:30,980 --> 00:25:33,220 organization under Henry we have an Operations organization and a science 1120 00:25:33,220 --> 00:25:33,230 Operations organization and a science 1121 00:25:33,230 --> 00:25:34,690 Operations organization and a science organization and then we have the 1122 00:25:34,690 --> 00:25:34,700 organization and then we have the 1123 00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:37,710 organization and then we have the supporting functions and those are all 1124 00:25:37,710 --> 00:25:37,720 supporting functions and those are all 1125 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,600 supporting functions and those are all matrix you might say support to the 1126 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:40,610 matrix you might say support to the 1127 00:25:40,610 --> 00:25:43,780 matrix you might say support to the program manager and as we said before he 1128 00:25:43,780 --> 00:25:43,790 program manager and as we said before he 1129 00:25:43,790 --> 00:25:45,070 program manager and as we said before he gets inputs from that there's 1130 00:25:45,070 --> 00:25:45,080 gets inputs from that there's 1131 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,530 gets inputs from that there's check and balance where the institution 1132 00:25:47,530 --> 00:25:47,540 check and balance where the institution 1133 00:25:47,540 --> 00:25:49,780 check and balance where the institution does support the program manager but you 1134 00:25:49,780 --> 00:25:49,790 does support the program manager but you 1135 00:25:49,790 --> 00:25:51,640 does support the program manager but you do have to say that the program manager 1136 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:51,650 do have to say that the program manager 1137 00:25:51,650 --> 00:25:53,200 do have to say that the program manager you have to give somebody that rain and 1138 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:53,210 you have to give somebody that rain and 1139 00:25:53,210 --> 00:25:56,550 you have to give somebody that rain and the program manager he fulfills the 1140 00:25:56,550 --> 00:25:56,560 the program manager he fulfills the 1141 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,230 the program manager he fulfills the criteria I said out with that we start 1142 00:25:59,230 --> 00:25:59,240 criteria I said out with that we start 1143 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,060 criteria I said out with that we start off this discussion on fulfills that 1144 00:26:01,060 --> 00:26:01,070 off this discussion on fulfills that 1145 00:26:01,070 --> 00:26:03,580 off this discussion on fulfills that criteria he's justifiable having 51 1146 00:26:03,580 --> 00:26:03,590 criteria he's justifiable having 51 1147 00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:05,230 criteria he's justifiable having 51 percent of the vote and making the right 1148 00:26:05,230 --> 00:26:05,240 percent of the vote and making the right 1149 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,410 percent of the vote and making the right decision I think I could even make a 1150 00:26:08,410 --> 00:26:08,420 decision I think I could even make a 1151 00:26:08,420 --> 00:26:10,300 decision I think I could even make a stronger case for the it for the feet to 1152 00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:10,310 stronger case for the it for the feet to 1153 00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:12,850 stronger case for the it for the feet to one percent because if it was not for 1154 00:26:12,850 --> 00:26:12,860 one percent because if it was not for 1155 00:26:12,860 --> 00:26:15,520 one percent because if it was not for the programs you would have little need 1156 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:15,530 the programs you would have little need 1157 00:26:15,530 --> 00:26:20,080 the programs you would have little need for an institution because our total 1158 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:20,090 for an institution because our total 1159 00:26:20,090 --> 00:26:22,450 for an institution because our total endeavor is in support of the projects 1160 00:26:22,450 --> 00:26:22,460 endeavor is in support of the projects 1161 00:26:22,460 --> 00:26:26,530 endeavor is in support of the projects are the programs at hand and it's a 1162 00:26:26,530 --> 00:26:26,540 are the programs at hand and it's a 1163 00:26:26,540 --> 00:26:28,000 are the programs at hand and it's a matter of how you go about doing it 1164 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:28,010 matter of how you go about doing it 1165 00:26:28,010 --> 00:26:33,910 matter of how you go about doing it that's right Aaron it might be good to 1166 00:26:33,910 --> 00:26:33,920 that's right Aaron it might be good to 1167 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,770 that's right Aaron it might be good to take a couple of cases in point what was 1168 00:26:38,770 --> 00:26:38,780 take a couple of cases in point what was 1169 00:26:38,780 --> 00:26:42,870 take a couple of cases in point what was your most trying decision during Apollo 1170 00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:42,880 your most trying decision during Apollo 1171 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,190 your most trying decision during Apollo well there are a couple Joe and I'd like 1172 00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:45,200 well there are a couple Joe and I'd like 1173 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,170 well there are a couple Joe and I'd like to you and Henry were there too I there 1174 00:26:47,170 --> 00:26:47,180 to you and Henry were there too I there 1175 00:26:47,180 --> 00:26:49,630 to you and Henry were there too I there was a couple one I remember very 1176 00:26:49,630 --> 00:26:49,640 was a couple one I remember very 1177 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,030 was a couple one I remember very distinctly which I probably learned one 1178 00:26:52,030 --> 00:26:52,040 distinctly which I probably learned one 1179 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,750 distinctly which I probably learned one of my biggest lessons from was I I think 1180 00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:55,760 of my biggest lessons from was I I think 1181 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,090 of my biggest lessons from was I I think the admission was Apollo 11 but i think 1182 00:26:58,090 --> 00:26:58,100 the admission was Apollo 11 but i think 1183 00:26:58,100 --> 00:27:01,330 the admission was Apollo 11 but i think it was there was an inertial measurement 1184 00:27:01,330 --> 00:27:01,340 it was there was an inertial measurement 1185 00:27:01,340 --> 00:27:04,270 it was there was an inertial measurement unit that was a little bit out of spec 1186 00:27:04,270 --> 00:27:04,280 unit that was a little bit out of spec 1187 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,630 unit that was a little bit out of spec not much out of spec and we were we were 1188 00:27:07,630 --> 00:27:07,640 not much out of spec and we were we were 1189 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,750 not much out of spec and we were we were thrashing around whether we should 1190 00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:09,760 thrashing around whether we should 1191 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,720 thrashing around whether we should remove that initial measurement unit and 1192 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:12,730 remove that initial measurement unit and 1193 00:27:12,730 --> 00:27:15,010 remove that initial measurement unit and if you know the lunar module was a 1194 00:27:15,010 --> 00:27:15,020 if you know the lunar module was a 1195 00:27:15,020 --> 00:27:17,350 if you know the lunar module was a pretty flimsy and i would say flimsy but 1196 00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:17,360 pretty flimsy and i would say flimsy but 1197 00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:18,670 pretty flimsy and i would say flimsy but it wasn't it didn't have a very hefty 1198 00:27:18,670 --> 00:27:18,680 it wasn't it didn't have a very hefty 1199 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,110 it wasn't it didn't have a very hefty structured was on the stack out of the 1200 00:27:20,110 --> 00:27:20,120 structured was on the stack out of the 1201 00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:22,150 structured was on the stack out of the pad and we had to make a decision where 1202 00:27:22,150 --> 00:27:22,160 pad and we had to make a decision where 1203 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:23,170 pad and we had to make a decision where we should replace that inertial 1204 00:27:23,170 --> 00:27:23,180 we should replace that inertial 1205 00:27:23,180 --> 00:27:24,520 we should replace that inertial measurement unit or should we live with 1206 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:24,530 measurement unit or should we live with 1207 00:27:24,530 --> 00:27:27,850 measurement unit or should we live with it and and we went to we talked about a 1208 00:27:27,850 --> 00:27:27,860 it and and we went to we talked about a 1209 00:27:27,860 --> 00:27:30,130 it and and we went to we talked about a long time we went to George Lowe and we 1210 00:27:30,130 --> 00:27:30,140 long time we went to George Lowe and we 1211 00:27:30,140 --> 00:27:31,600 long time we went to George Lowe and we really recommended give him all the data 1212 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:31,610 really recommended give him all the data 1213 00:27:31,610 --> 00:27:33,070 really recommended give him all the data but we came up with a recommendation 1214 00:27:33,070 --> 00:27:33,080 but we came up with a recommendation 1215 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,050 but we came up with a recommendation that says we really should not change 1216 00:27:35,050 --> 00:27:35,060 that says we really should not change 1217 00:27:35,060 --> 00:27:36,820 that says we really should not change that at IMU out the inertial measurement 1218 00:27:36,820 --> 00:27:36,830 that at IMU out the inertial measurement 1219 00:27:36,830 --> 00:27:38,680 that at IMU out the inertial measurement unit now there's a risk in doing it we 1220 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:38,690 unit now there's a risk in doing it we 1221 00:27:38,690 --> 00:27:41,320 unit now there's a risk in doing it we could live with it and he thought for a 1222 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:41,330 could live with it and he thought for a 1223 00:27:41,330 --> 00:27:43,390 could live with it and he thought for a moment and looked at us he said if you 1224 00:27:43,390 --> 00:27:43,400 moment and looked at us he said if you 1225 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,750 moment and looked at us he said if you can if we can remove that issue from the 1226 00:27:46,750 --> 00:27:46,760 can if we can remove that issue from the 1227 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,000 can if we can remove that issue from the equation we ought to go change it out so 1228 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:49,010 equation we ought to go change it out so 1229 00:27:49,010 --> 00:27:50,740 equation we ought to go change it out so I want to go change the IMU out so that 1230 00:27:50,740 --> 00:27:50,750 I want to go change the IMU out so that 1231 00:27:50,750 --> 00:27:52,090 I want to go change the IMU out so that was a good point I was good that was a 1232 00:27:52,090 --> 00:27:52,100 was a good point I was good that was a 1233 00:27:52,100 --> 00:27:54,610 was a good point I was good that was a good lesson that I learned and always 1234 00:27:54,610 --> 00:27:54,620 good lesson that I learned and always 1235 00:27:54,620 --> 00:27:55,640 good lesson that I learned and always keep in the back of my 1236 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:55,650 keep in the back of my 1237 00:27:55,650 --> 00:27:58,010 keep in the back of my the other one was one I think it was wow 1238 00:27:58,010 --> 00:27:58,020 the other one was one I think it was wow 1239 00:27:58,020 --> 00:27:59,600 the other one was one I think it was wow if it was Henry of one of his people in 1240 00:27:59,600 --> 00:27:59,610 if it was Henry of one of his people in 1241 00:27:59,610 --> 00:28:01,910 if it was Henry of one of his people in propulsion area that came to me in as 1242 00:28:01,910 --> 00:28:01,920 propulsion area that came to me in as 1243 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,640 propulsion area that came to me in as well that was on Apollo 8 where we had 1244 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:04,650 well that was on Apollo 8 where we had 1245 00:28:04,650 --> 00:28:06,620 well that was on Apollo 8 where we had this issue on the injector of the sps 1246 00:28:06,620 --> 00:28:06,630 this issue on the injector of the sps 1247 00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:09,050 this issue on the injector of the sps edge and where we found that it's a long 1248 00:28:09,050 --> 00:28:09,060 edge and where we found that it's a long 1249 00:28:09,060 --> 00:28:12,020 edge and where we found that it's a long story we found that if you fired the 1250 00:28:12,020 --> 00:28:12,030 story we found that if you fired the 1251 00:28:12,030 --> 00:28:14,360 story we found that if you fired the ejector dry with both banks of the of 1252 00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:14,370 ejector dry with both banks of the of 1253 00:28:14,370 --> 00:28:17,720 ejector dry with both banks of the of the in the engine that you could have a 1254 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:17,730 the in the engine that you could have a 1255 00:28:17,730 --> 00:28:19,730 the in the engine that you could have a detonation essentially causes pressure 1256 00:28:19,730 --> 00:28:19,740 detonation essentially causes pressure 1257 00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:23,510 detonation essentially causes pressure spike and damage the chamber and I have 1258 00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:23,520 spike and damage the chamber and I have 1259 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,160 spike and damage the chamber and I have one of Henry's guys i Henry bought it to 1260 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:25,170 one of Henry's guys i Henry bought it to 1261 00:28:25,170 --> 00:28:29,210 one of Henry's guys i Henry bought it to me and and here we ready to fly Apollo 8 1262 00:28:29,210 --> 00:28:29,220 me and and here we ready to fly Apollo 8 1263 00:28:29,220 --> 00:28:30,680 me and and here we ready to fly Apollo 8 to the moon first time we ever left the 1264 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:30,690 to the moon first time we ever left the 1265 00:28:30,690 --> 00:28:32,770 to the moon first time we ever left the Earth's gravity going to the moon and 1266 00:28:32,770 --> 00:28:32,780 Earth's gravity going to the moon and 1267 00:28:32,780 --> 00:28:35,480 Earth's gravity going to the moon and the way we were going to do it is we 1268 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:35,490 the way we were going to do it is we 1269 00:28:35,490 --> 00:28:37,880 the way we were going to do it is we were going to fire both banks of those 1270 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:37,890 were going to fire both banks of those 1271 00:28:37,890 --> 00:28:41,930 were going to fire both banks of those engines when we got into lunar orbit so 1272 00:28:41,930 --> 00:28:41,940 engines when we got into lunar orbit so 1273 00:28:41,940 --> 00:28:44,890 engines when we got into lunar orbit so we could be sure we got into a good burn 1274 00:28:44,890 --> 00:28:44,900 we could be sure we got into a good burn 1275 00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:47,810 we could be sure we got into a good burn and that could have been a bad that's 1276 00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:47,820 and that could have been a bad that's 1277 00:28:47,820 --> 00:28:49,250 and that could have been a bad that's the way the process was set up so these 1278 00:28:49,250 --> 00:28:49,260 the way the process was set up so these 1279 00:28:49,260 --> 00:28:51,920 the way the process was set up so these guys brought that to me and I I got 1280 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:51,930 guys brought that to me and I I got 1281 00:28:51,930 --> 00:28:53,450 guys brought that to me and I I got pretty excited about it here was 11th 1282 00:28:53,450 --> 00:28:53,460 pretty excited about it here was 11th 1283 00:28:53,460 --> 00:28:55,610 pretty excited about it here was 11th hour and I had a fair of it but they 1284 00:28:55,610 --> 00:28:55,620 hour and I had a fair of it but they 1285 00:28:55,620 --> 00:28:57,260 hour and I had a fair of it but they came to me with a solution they said 1286 00:28:57,260 --> 00:28:57,270 came to me with a solution they said 1287 00:28:57,270 --> 00:28:59,270 came to me with a solution they said what she could do is you could fire on 1288 00:28:59,270 --> 00:28:59,280 what she could do is you could fire on 1289 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,070 what she could do is you could fire on way out she could fire out a plane just 1290 00:29:01,070 --> 00:29:01,080 way out she could fire out a plane just 1291 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,960 way out she could fire out a plane just what the bank one with one engine and as 1292 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:02,970 what the bank one with one engine and as 1293 00:29:02,970 --> 00:29:04,610 what the bank one with one engine and as you go fire the other bank with the 1294 00:29:04,610 --> 00:29:04,620 you go fire the other bank with the 1295 00:29:04,620 --> 00:29:05,930 you go fire the other bank with the other engine get back and playing not to 1296 00:29:05,930 --> 00:29:05,940 other engine get back and playing not to 1297 00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:07,190 other engine get back and playing not to store your free return trajectory and 1298 00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:07,200 store your free return trajectory and 1299 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:08,810 store your free return trajectory and have both banks wedded so you can then 1300 00:29:08,810 --> 00:29:08,820 have both banks wedded so you can then 1301 00:29:08,820 --> 00:29:10,340 have both banks wedded so you can then when you got you could fire both engine 1302 00:29:10,340 --> 00:29:10,350 when you got you could fire both engine 1303 00:29:10,350 --> 00:29:12,110 when you got you could fire both engine be saved but I was the one who had to 1304 00:29:12,110 --> 00:29:12,120 be saved but I was the one who had to 1305 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:13,760 be saved but I was the one who had to call George Lowe tell him that that at 1306 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:13,770 call George Lowe tell him that that at 1307 00:29:13,770 --> 00:29:16,010 call George Lowe tell him that that at the cape and that was an interesting 1308 00:29:16,010 --> 00:29:16,020 the cape and that was an interesting 1309 00:29:16,020 --> 00:29:18,290 the cape and that was an interesting experience and I did that but I think 1310 00:29:18,290 --> 00:29:18,300 experience and I did that but I think 1311 00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:20,990 experience and I did that but I think the message there was that and I think 1312 00:29:20,990 --> 00:29:21,000 the message there was that and I think 1313 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,420 the message there was that and I think there's a very key message there and I 1314 00:29:23,420 --> 00:29:23,430 there's a very key message there and I 1315 00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:24,410 there's a very key message there and I think that's probably one of the most 1316 00:29:24,410 --> 00:29:24,420 think that's probably one of the most 1317 00:29:24,420 --> 00:29:27,350 think that's probably one of the most important important lessons to learn and 1318 00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:27,360 important important lessons to learn and 1319 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,680 important important lessons to learn and that is that you should a project 1320 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:30,690 that is that you should a project 1321 00:29:30,690 --> 00:29:33,470 that is that you should a project manager our manager should give the 1322 00:29:33,470 --> 00:29:33,480 manager our manager should give the 1323 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,900 manager our manager should give the feeling to the people that he works with 1324 00:29:35,900 --> 00:29:35,910 feeling to the people that he works with 1325 00:29:35,910 --> 00:29:38,290 feeling to the people that he works with that they can bring him problems and 1326 00:29:38,290 --> 00:29:38,300 that they can bring him problems and 1327 00:29:38,300 --> 00:29:40,670 that they can bring him problems and they can bring him any kind of problem 1328 00:29:40,670 --> 00:29:40,680 they can bring him any kind of problem 1329 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,950 they can bring him any kind of problem and that he's willing to understand that 1330 00:29:42,950 --> 00:29:42,960 and that he's willing to understand that 1331 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,020 and that he's willing to understand that and work with him to us to a solution 1332 00:29:45,020 --> 00:29:45,030 and work with him to us to a solution 1333 00:29:45,030 --> 00:29:47,090 and work with him to us to a solution and so that was a very healthy situation 1334 00:29:47,090 --> 00:29:47,100 and so that was a very healthy situation 1335 00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:49,510 and so that was a very healthy situation I think if you can expel that type of 1336 00:29:49,510 --> 00:29:49,520 I think if you can expel that type of 1337 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,490 I think if you can expel that type of feeling amongst all your people I think 1338 00:29:52,490 --> 00:29:52,500 feeling amongst all your people I think 1339 00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:56,780 feeling amongst all your people I think you'll be very successful Henry how do 1340 00:29:56,780 --> 00:29:56,790 you'll be very successful Henry how do 1341 00:29:56,790 --> 00:29:58,850 you'll be very successful Henry how do you try to create that sense in your 1342 00:29:58,850 --> 00:29:58,860 you try to create that sense in your 1343 00:29:58,860 --> 00:30:03,549 you try to create that sense in your subsystem and injuries 1344 00:30:03,549 --> 00:30:03,559 1345 00:30:03,559 --> 00:30:06,649 you do it by giving them a feeling of 1346 00:30:06,649 --> 00:30:06,659 you do it by giving them a feeling of 1347 00:30:06,659 --> 00:30:09,709 you do it by giving them a feeling of responsibility that it is their 1348 00:30:09,709 --> 00:30:09,719 responsibility that it is their 1349 00:30:09,719 --> 00:30:11,599 responsibility that it is their responsibility to make absolutely 1350 00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:11,609 responsibility to make absolutely 1351 00:30:11,609 --> 00:30:13,849 responsibility to make absolutely certain that their hardware is going to 1352 00:30:13,849 --> 00:30:13,859 certain that their hardware is going to 1353 00:30:13,859 --> 00:30:16,999 certain that their hardware is going to fail it's going to work if they feel 1354 00:30:16,999 --> 00:30:17,009 fail it's going to work if they feel 1355 00:30:17,009 --> 00:30:18,769 fail it's going to work if they feel like it's going to fail it is their 1356 00:30:18,769 --> 00:30:18,779 like it's going to fail it is their 1357 00:30:18,779 --> 00:30:21,619 like it's going to fail it is their responsibility to bring it forward and 1358 00:30:21,619 --> 00:30:21,629 responsibility to bring it forward and 1359 00:30:21,629 --> 00:30:23,659 responsibility to bring it forward and it's not always pleasant one of the most 1360 00:30:23,659 --> 00:30:23,669 it's not always pleasant one of the most 1361 00:30:23,669 --> 00:30:25,759 it's not always pleasant one of the most difficult things sometimes is go in and 1362 00:30:25,759 --> 00:30:25,769 difficult things sometimes is go in and 1363 00:30:25,769 --> 00:30:27,469 difficult things sometimes is go in and tell you boss something that you know 1364 00:30:27,469 --> 00:30:27,479 tell you boss something that you know 1365 00:30:27,479 --> 00:30:32,749 tell you boss something that you know your boss is not going to like I I can 1366 00:30:32,749 --> 00:30:32,759 your boss is not going to like I I can 1367 00:30:32,759 --> 00:30:36,259 your boss is not going to like I I can remember when this excuse me one night 1368 00:30:36,259 --> 00:30:36,269 remember when this excuse me one night 1369 00:30:36,269 --> 00:30:38,029 remember when this excuse me one night they called me at home by eleven o'clock 1370 00:30:38,029 --> 00:30:38,039 they called me at home by eleven o'clock 1371 00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:40,459 they called me at home by eleven o'clock at night and told me they had a pop in 1372 00:30:40,459 --> 00:30:40,469 at night and told me they had a pop in 1373 00:30:40,469 --> 00:30:42,109 at night and told me they had a pop in the command module when they were 1374 00:30:42,109 --> 00:30:42,119 the command module when they were 1375 00:30:42,119 --> 00:30:45,139 the command module when they were servicing nor RCS and I was up there are 1376 00:30:45,139 --> 00:30:45,149 servicing nor RCS and I was up there are 1377 00:30:45,149 --> 00:30:46,969 servicing nor RCS and I was up there are a few weeks before an attention creaking 1378 00:30:46,969 --> 00:30:46,979 a few weeks before an attention creaking 1379 00:30:46,979 --> 00:30:49,039 a few weeks before an attention creaking and popping and I didn't think too much 1380 00:30:49,039 --> 00:30:49,049 and popping and I didn't think too much 1381 00:30:49,049 --> 00:30:50,899 and popping and I didn't think too much about it but next morning I walked into 1382 00:30:50,899 --> 00:30:50,909 about it but next morning I walked into 1383 00:30:50,909 --> 00:30:53,719 about it but next morning I walked into one of my engineers that they had a pop 1384 00:30:53,719 --> 00:30:53,729 one of my engineers that they had a pop 1385 00:30:53,729 --> 00:30:56,029 one of my engineers that they had a pop in the tanks that shoot they brought a 1386 00:30:56,029 --> 00:30:56,039 in the tanks that shoot they brought a 1387 00:30:56,039 --> 00:30:59,239 in the tanks that shoot they brought a standpipe into says I just ran those 1388 00:30:59,239 --> 00:30:59,249 standpipe into says I just ran those 1389 00:30:59,249 --> 00:31:01,159 standpipe into says I just ran those calculations last week before I stand 1390 00:31:01,159 --> 00:31:01,169 calculations last week before I stand 1391 00:31:01,169 --> 00:31:03,949 calculations last week before I stand pipe into that was the one who we pulled 1392 00:31:03,949 --> 00:31:03,959 pipe into that was the one who we pulled 1393 00:31:03,959 --> 00:31:05,659 pipe into that was the one who we pulled the command module up we didn't replace 1394 00:31:05,659 --> 00:31:05,669 the command module up we didn't replace 1395 00:31:05,669 --> 00:31:08,359 the command module up we didn't replace the tank on it that was a pleasant thing 1396 00:31:08,359 --> 00:31:08,369 the tank on it that was a pleasant thing 1397 00:31:08,369 --> 00:31:10,039 the tank on it that was a pleasant thing to head and go forward tell somebody 1398 00:31:10,039 --> 00:31:10,049 to head and go forward tell somebody 1399 00:31:10,049 --> 00:31:11,629 to head and go forward tell somebody that we thought they school to stand 1400 00:31:11,629 --> 00:31:11,639 that we thought they school to stand 1401 00:31:11,639 --> 00:31:14,329 that we thought they school to stand pipe into no way to get in there sure 1402 00:31:14,329 --> 00:31:14,339 pipe into no way to get in there sure 1403 00:31:14,339 --> 00:31:16,519 pipe into no way to get in there sure enough they did they put it into that 1404 00:31:16,519 --> 00:31:16,529 enough they did they put it into that 1405 00:31:16,529 --> 00:31:18,649 enough they did they put it into that that is good that's the right way i can 1406 00:31:18,649 --> 00:31:18,659 that is good that's the right way i can 1407 00:31:18,659 --> 00:31:20,479 that is good that's the right way i can give you another if you got just ten 1408 00:31:20,479 --> 00:31:20,489 give you another if you got just ten 1409 00:31:20,489 --> 00:31:23,869 give you another if you got just ten seconds another good example on the RCS 1410 00:31:23,869 --> 00:31:23,879 seconds another good example on the RCS 1411 00:31:23,879 --> 00:31:26,389 seconds another good example on the RCS tanks they were made out of titanium 28 1412 00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:26,399 tanks they were made out of titanium 28 1413 00:31:26,399 --> 00:31:28,579 tanks they were made out of titanium 28 days into a 30 day test one story 1414 00:31:28,579 --> 00:31:28,589 days into a 30 day test one story 1415 00:31:28,589 --> 00:31:32,209 days into a 30 day test one story leaking various all leak they cut that 1416 00:31:32,209 --> 00:31:32,219 leaking various all leak they cut that 1417 00:31:32,219 --> 00:31:34,189 leaking various all leak they cut that piece out analyzed it said it was caused 1418 00:31:34,189 --> 00:31:34,199 piece out analyzed it said it was caused 1419 00:31:34,199 --> 00:31:37,579 piece out analyzed it said it was caused from finger print that paper came across 1420 00:31:37,579 --> 00:31:37,589 from finger print that paper came across 1421 00:31:37,589 --> 00:31:40,879 from finger print that paper came across my desk I looked at it it looked fine I 1422 00:31:40,879 --> 00:31:40,889 my desk I looked at it it looked fine I 1423 00:31:40,889 --> 00:31:44,359 my desk I looked at it it looked fine I signed it sent it on its way sent one of 1424 00:31:44,359 --> 00:31:44,369 signed it sent it on its way sent one of 1425 00:31:44,369 --> 00:31:46,669 signed it sent it on its way sent one of the engineers out to look at those tanks 1426 00:31:46,669 --> 00:31:46,679 the engineers out to look at those tanks 1427 00:31:46,679 --> 00:31:48,349 the engineers out to look at those tanks he came back says henrik we can't let 1428 00:31:48,349 --> 00:31:48,359 he came back says henrik we can't let 1429 00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:49,819 he came back says henrik we can't let him get away with that there was not a 1430 00:31:49,819 --> 00:31:49,829 him get away with that there was not a 1431 00:31:49,829 --> 00:31:52,279 him get away with that there was not a fingerprint I said why he said he'd take 1432 00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:52,289 fingerprint I said why he said he'd take 1433 00:31:52,289 --> 00:31:54,859 fingerprint I said why he said he'd take a monkey to get in there put his finger 1434 00:31:54,859 --> 00:31:54,869 a monkey to get in there put his finger 1435 00:31:54,869 --> 00:31:56,050 a monkey to get in there put his finger in there 1436 00:31:56,050 --> 00:31:56,060 in there 1437 00:31:56,060 --> 00:31:59,690 in there make a long story short we wouldn't put 1438 00:31:59,690 --> 00:31:59,700 make a long story short we wouldn't put 1439 00:31:59,700 --> 00:32:03,980 make a long story short we wouldn't put 10 tanks and test after much arguing 1440 00:32:03,980 --> 00:32:03,990 10 tanks and test after much arguing 1441 00:32:03,990 --> 00:32:07,610 10 tanks and test after much arguing over it but he wouldn't give up every 1442 00:32:07,610 --> 00:32:07,620 over it but he wouldn't give up every 1443 00:32:07,620 --> 00:32:09,950 over it but he wouldn't give up every day he came in at least once it says 1444 00:32:09,950 --> 00:32:09,960 day he came in at least once it says 1445 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,780 day he came in at least once it says Henrik we have to do something about 1446 00:32:11,780 --> 00:32:11,790 Henrik we have to do something about 1447 00:32:11,790 --> 00:32:14,140 Henrik we have to do something about that that was not a random failure and 1448 00:32:14,140 --> 00:32:14,150 that that was not a random failure and 1449 00:32:14,150 --> 00:32:17,950 that that was not a random failure and so finally I got the nerve to go forward 1450 00:32:17,950 --> 00:32:17,960 so finally I got the nerve to go forward 1451 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,330 so finally I got the nerve to go forward tell the program manager that we had a 1452 00:32:20,330 --> 00:32:20,340 tell the program manager that we had a 1453 00:32:20,340 --> 00:32:23,180 tell the program manager that we had a problem and when I did we got 10 tanks 1454 00:32:23,180 --> 00:32:23,190 problem and when I did we got 10 tanks 1455 00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:25,220 problem and when I did we got 10 tanks and tests and ninety eight hours in the 1456 00:32:25,220 --> 00:32:25,230 and tests and ninety eight hours in the 1457 00:32:25,230 --> 00:32:28,010 and tests and ninety eight hours in the test three of them blew up just broke 1458 00:32:28,010 --> 00:32:28,020 test three of them blew up just broke 1459 00:32:28,020 --> 00:32:29,870 test three of them blew up just broke wide open of course then you didn't have 1460 00:32:29,870 --> 00:32:29,880 wide open of course then you didn't have 1461 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,640 wide open of course then you didn't have to worry about it anymore we fixed it 1462 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:31,650 to worry about it anymore we fixed it 1463 00:32:31,650 --> 00:32:36,140 to worry about it anymore we fixed it but it is through his integrity and his 1464 00:32:36,140 --> 00:32:36,150 but it is through his integrity and his 1465 00:32:36,150 --> 00:32:39,380 but it is through his integrity and his concern and him not letting it die that 1466 00:32:39,380 --> 00:32:39,390 concern and him not letting it die that 1467 00:32:39,390 --> 00:32:41,480 concern and him not letting it die that kept us from having a problem on the 1468 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:41,490 kept us from having a problem on the 1469 00:32:41,490 --> 00:32:46,510 kept us from having a problem on the first Paula Paula fight and somehow that 1470 00:32:46,510 --> 00:32:46,520 first Paula Paula fight and somehow that 1471 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,300 first Paula Paula fight and somehow that needs to be reinforced every day of 1472 00:32:50,300 --> 00:32:50,310 needs to be reinforced every day of 1473 00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:53,180 needs to be reinforced every day of every week you know if you don't do your 1474 00:32:53,180 --> 00:32:53,190 every week you know if you don't do your 1475 00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:56,000 every week you know if you don't do your job and you don't do it good the bird 1476 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:56,010 job and you don't do it good the bird 1477 00:32:56,010 --> 00:33:00,350 job and you don't do it good the bird will fly and so I see that is one of our 1478 00:33:00,350 --> 00:33:00,360 will fly and so I see that is one of our 1479 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,560 will fly and so I see that is one of our major jobs as managers is to convince 1480 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:03,570 major jobs as managers is to convince 1481 00:33:03,570 --> 00:33:07,340 major jobs as managers is to convince the people that we're working with every 1482 00:33:07,340 --> 00:33:07,350 the people that we're working with every 1483 00:33:07,350 --> 00:33:10,940 the people that we're working with every day that it's their responsibility to 1484 00:33:10,940 --> 00:33:10,950 day that it's their responsibility to 1485 00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:13,430 day that it's their responsibility to understand their hard work and if they 1486 00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:13,440 understand their hard work and if they 1487 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,550 understand their hard work and if they see something that they feel is not 1488 00:33:16,550 --> 00:33:16,560 see something that they feel is not 1489 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,340 see something that they feel is not right bring it forward and talk about it 1490 00:33:19,340 --> 00:33:19,350 right bring it forward and talk about it 1491 00:33:19,350 --> 00:33:21,470 right bring it forward and talk about it if you don't get the answer you want 1492 00:33:21,470 --> 00:33:21,480 if you don't get the answer you want 1493 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,830 if you don't get the answer you want that day you bring it forward again and 1494 00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:23,840 that day you bring it forward again and 1495 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,420 that day you bring it forward again and try to convince the people that you're 1496 00:33:26,420 --> 00:33:26,430 try to convince the people that you're 1497 00:33:26,430 --> 00:33:29,990 try to convince the people that you're right in the final analysis it after you 1498 00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:30,000 right in the final analysis it after you 1499 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,800 right in the final analysis it after you do that two or three times then you go 1500 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:33,810 do that two or three times then you go 1501 00:33:33,810 --> 00:33:35,630 do that two or three times then you go back and you do it the way that you've 1502 00:33:35,630 --> 00:33:35,640 back and you do it the way that you've 1503 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,910 back and you do it the way that you've been directed to do it but you make 1504 00:33:37,910 --> 00:33:37,920 been directed to do it but you make 1505 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:39,290 been directed to do it but you make every effort to convince them that 1506 00:33:39,290 --> 00:33:39,300 every effort to convince them that 1507 00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:43,040 every effort to convince them that you're right we've taken some examples 1508 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:43,050 you're right we've taken some examples 1509 00:33:43,050 --> 00:33:46,730 you're right we've taken some examples from Apollo do you have one or two 1510 00:33:46,730 --> 00:33:46,740 from Apollo do you have one or two 1511 00:33:46,740 --> 00:33:50,540 from Apollo do you have one or two similar cases and settle progress of 1512 00:33:50,540 --> 00:33:50,550 similar cases and settle progress of 1513 00:33:50,550 --> 00:33:52,630 similar cases and settle progress of course the thing we didn't talk about 1514 00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:52,640 course the thing we didn't talk about 1515 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,920 course the thing we didn't talk about which i think is important as decision 1516 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:54,930 which i think is important as decision 1517 00:33:54,930 --> 00:33:56,150 which i think is important as decision making 1518 00:33:56,150 --> 00:33:56,160 making 1519 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,570 making and decision making is a very important 1520 00:33:59,570 --> 00:33:59,580 and decision making is a very important 1521 00:33:59,580 --> 00:34:01,160 and decision making is a very important a time and timely decision making is 1522 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:01,170 a time and timely decision making is 1523 00:34:01,170 --> 00:34:03,440 a time and timely decision making is even more important in that didn't by 1524 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:03,450 even more important in that didn't by 1525 00:34:03,450 --> 00:34:05,750 even more important in that didn't by definition not by Tommy decision making 1526 00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:05,760 definition not by Tommy decision making 1527 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,760 definition not by Tommy decision making i'm not i don't really mean that you 1528 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:07,770 i'm not i don't really mean that you 1529 00:34:07,770 --> 00:34:09,020 i'm not i don't really mean that you have to make decision right away it's 1530 00:34:09,020 --> 00:34:09,030 have to make decision right away it's 1531 00:34:09,030 --> 00:34:10,700 have to make decision right away it's got to be timed properly sometimes it's 1532 00:34:10,700 --> 00:34:10,710 got to be timed properly sometimes it's 1533 00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:12,470 got to be timed properly sometimes it's right away and sometimes you wait and 1534 00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:12,480 right away and sometimes you wait and 1535 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:13,909 right away and sometimes you wait and sometimes you don't always have all the 1536 00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:13,919 sometimes you don't always have all the 1537 00:34:13,919 --> 00:34:15,050 sometimes you don't always have all the information you need to make the 1538 00:34:15,050 --> 00:34:15,060 information you need to make the 1539 00:34:15,060 --> 00:34:17,360 information you need to make the decision but sometimes you need to make 1540 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:17,370 decision but sometimes you need to make 1541 00:34:17,370 --> 00:34:20,540 decision but sometimes you need to make the decision without all the information 1542 00:34:20,540 --> 00:34:20,550 the decision without all the information 1543 00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:23,900 the decision without all the information and the fact that you've the fact that 1544 00:34:23,900 --> 00:34:23,910 and the fact that you've the fact that 1545 00:34:23,910 --> 00:34:25,700 and the fact that you've the fact that you've made a timely decision think the 1546 00:34:25,700 --> 00:34:25,710 you've made a timely decision think the 1547 00:34:25,710 --> 00:34:27,140 you've made a timely decision think the fact that you waited you have a good 1548 00:34:27,140 --> 00:34:27,150 fact that you waited you have a good 1549 00:34:27,150 --> 00:34:30,590 fact that you waited you have a good chance to be right a couple of items in 1550 00:34:30,590 --> 00:34:30,600 chance to be right a couple of items in 1551 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:35,330 chance to be right a couple of items in the orbit program that come to mind one 1552 00:34:35,330 --> 00:34:35,340 the orbit program that come to mind one 1553 00:34:35,340 --> 00:34:39,770 the orbit program that come to mind one was one was early in the program we had 1554 00:34:39,770 --> 00:34:39,780 was one was early in the program we had 1555 00:34:39,780 --> 00:34:42,409 was one was early in the program we had to decide what type of landing system to 1556 00:34:42,409 --> 00:34:42,419 to decide what type of landing system to 1557 00:34:42,419 --> 00:34:46,270 to decide what type of landing system to use and it was a technology issue which 1558 00:34:46,270 --> 00:34:46,280 use and it was a technology issue which 1559 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,590 use and it was a technology issue which we were going through in terms of what 1560 00:34:48,590 --> 00:34:48,600 we were going through in terms of what 1561 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,240 we were going through in terms of what was the right technology to pick and we 1562 00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:50,250 was the right technology to pick and we 1563 00:34:50,250 --> 00:34:55,720 was the right technology to pick and we were looking at that time back in the 1564 00:34:55,720 --> 00:34:55,730 1565 00:34:55,730 --> 00:34:58,730 early part of the program of 72 time 1566 00:34:58,730 --> 00:34:58,740 early part of the program of 72 time 1567 00:34:58,740 --> 00:34:59,780 early part of the program of 72 time period whether we should go with the 1568 00:34:59,780 --> 00:34:59,790 period whether we should go with the 1569 00:34:59,790 --> 00:35:01,850 period whether we should go with the microwave landing system now let it make 1570 00:35:01,850 --> 00:35:01,860 microwave landing system now let it make 1571 00:35:01,860 --> 00:35:02,930 microwave landing system now let it make the decision today would be pretty 1572 00:35:02,930 --> 00:35:02,940 the decision today would be pretty 1573 00:35:02,940 --> 00:35:04,700 the decision today would be pretty straightforward but in that time period 1574 00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:04,710 straightforward but in that time period 1575 00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:06,680 straightforward but in that time period it was pretty hard to decide whether you 1576 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:06,690 it was pretty hard to decide whether you 1577 00:35:06,690 --> 00:35:07,820 it was pretty hard to decide whether you should go with the microwave landing 1578 00:35:07,820 --> 00:35:07,830 should go with the microwave landing 1579 00:35:07,830 --> 00:35:08,750 should go with the microwave landing system and I didn't have all the 1580 00:35:08,750 --> 00:35:08,760 system and I didn't have all the 1581 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,240 system and I didn't have all the information you know I didn't have it 1582 00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:11,250 information you know I didn't have it 1583 00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:14,140 information you know I didn't have it but I thought it was timely to do it and 1584 00:35:14,140 --> 00:35:14,150 but I thought it was timely to do it and 1585 00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:16,820 but I thought it was timely to do it and we I didn't really want to pay the money 1586 00:35:16,820 --> 00:35:16,830 we I didn't really want to pay the money 1587 00:35:16,830 --> 00:35:18,140 we I didn't really want to pay the money to pick up all the technology 1588 00:35:18,140 --> 00:35:18,150 to pick up all the technology 1589 00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:21,560 to pick up all the technology development and take that risk on the 1590 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:21,570 development and take that risk on the 1591 00:35:21,570 --> 00:35:22,880 development and take that risk on the other hand the performance looked awful 1592 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:22,890 other hand the performance looked awful 1593 00:35:22,890 --> 00:35:25,880 other hand the performance looked awful good so weighing that I made the 1594 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:25,890 good so weighing that I made the 1595 00:35:25,890 --> 00:35:26,960 good so weighing that I made the decision to go with the microwave 1596 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:26,970 decision to go with the microwave 1597 00:35:26,970 --> 00:35:28,130 decision to go with the microwave landing system it turned out to be the 1598 00:35:28,130 --> 00:35:28,140 landing system it turned out to be the 1599 00:35:28,140 --> 00:35:30,080 landing system it turned out to be the right decision we went with it's been 1600 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:30,090 right decision we went with it's been 1601 00:35:30,090 --> 00:35:32,090 right decision we went with it's been very successful and it's been one of our 1602 00:35:32,090 --> 00:35:32,100 very successful and it's been one of our 1603 00:35:32,100 --> 00:35:37,010 very successful and it's been one of our better systems another one is we were 1604 00:35:37,010 --> 00:35:37,020 better systems another one is we were 1605 00:35:37,020 --> 00:35:40,490 better systems another one is we were arguing one evening about the reversed 1606 00:35:40,490 --> 00:35:40,500 arguing one evening about the reversed 1607 00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:43,100 arguing one evening about the reversed on me this one was a good decision we 1608 00:35:43,100 --> 00:35:43,110 on me this one was a good decision we 1609 00:35:43,110 --> 00:35:44,570 on me this one was a good decision we were arguing one time about the number 1610 00:35:44,570 --> 00:35:44,580 were arguing one time about the number 1611 00:35:44,580 --> 00:35:45,950 were arguing one time about the number of structural test articles we need it 1612 00:35:45,950 --> 00:35:45,960 of structural test articles we need it 1613 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,380 of structural test articles we need it and my budget was pretty tight and the 1614 00:35:48,380 --> 00:35:48,390 and my budget was pretty tight and the 1615 00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:49,940 and my budget was pretty tight and the engineering people came in and said we 1616 00:35:49,940 --> 00:35:49,950 engineering people came in and said we 1617 00:35:49,950 --> 00:35:51,530 engineering people came in and said we needed I forgot how many structural test 1618 00:35:51,530 --> 00:35:51,540 needed I forgot how many structural test 1619 00:35:51,540 --> 00:35:53,600 needed I forgot how many structural test articles and and I looked at the budget 1620 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:53,610 articles and and I looked at the budget 1621 00:35:53,610 --> 00:35:55,070 articles and and I looked at the budget that would cost do that and I said no 1622 00:35:55,070 --> 00:35:55,080 that would cost do that and I said no 1623 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,110 that would cost do that and I said no we're going to cut cut five of them 1624 00:35:57,110 --> 00:35:57,120 we're going to cut cut five of them 1625 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:58,400 we're going to cut cut five of them three or four or five or something like 1626 00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:58,410 three or four or five or something like 1627 00:35:58,410 --> 00:35:58,940 three or four or five or something like that 1628 00:35:58,940 --> 00:35:58,950 that 1629 00:35:58,950 --> 00:36:02,060 that and I made that decision now it turns 1630 00:36:02,060 --> 00:36:02,070 and I made that decision now it turns 1631 00:36:02,070 --> 00:36:04,400 and I made that decision now it turns out that it was a timely decision they 1632 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:04,410 out that it was a timely decision they 1633 00:36:04,410 --> 00:36:06,200 out that it was a timely decision they came back to me about two months later 1634 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:06,210 came back to me about two months later 1635 00:36:06,210 --> 00:36:08,510 came back to me about two months later and they really had a very good 1636 00:36:08,510 --> 00:36:08,520 and they really had a very good 1637 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,329 and they really had a very good technical briefing of why technically 1638 00:36:11,329 --> 00:36:11,339 technical briefing of why technically 1639 00:36:11,339 --> 00:36:13,670 technical briefing of why technically from a safety point of view they really 1640 00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:13,680 from a safety point of view they really 1641 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,200 from a safety point of view they really needed the edit articles and I put them 1642 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:15,210 needed the edit articles and I put them 1643 00:36:15,210 --> 00:36:17,030 needed the edit articles and I put them back in the program and didn't hurt 1644 00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:17,040 back in the program and didn't hurt 1645 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,290 back in the program and didn't hurt anything because I didn't make a timely 1646 00:36:18,290 --> 00:36:18,300 anything because I didn't make a timely 1647 00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:19,670 anything because I didn't make a timely decision was able to pick up those out 1648 00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:19,680 decision was able to pick up those out 1649 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,829 decision was able to pick up those out of test articles that ties in two things 1650 00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:21,839 of test articles that ties in two things 1651 00:36:21,839 --> 00:36:23,150 of test articles that ties in two things one that people were afraid to come back 1652 00:36:23,150 --> 00:36:23,160 one that people were afraid to come back 1653 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,069 one that people were afraid to come back is Henry pointed out to tell you that 1654 00:36:25,069 --> 00:36:25,079 is Henry pointed out to tell you that 1655 00:36:25,079 --> 00:36:27,470 is Henry pointed out to tell you that you were wrong and number two I made a 1656 00:36:27,470 --> 00:36:27,480 you were wrong and number two I made a 1657 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,900 you were wrong and number two I made a timely decision which gave me time to to 1658 00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:29,910 timely decision which gave me time to to 1659 00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:32,359 timely decision which gave me time to to fix the problem so I think there's two 1660 00:36:32,359 --> 00:36:32,369 fix the problem so I think there's two 1661 00:36:32,369 --> 00:36:35,329 fix the problem so I think there's two ends of the spectrum and I think Aaron 1662 00:36:35,329 --> 00:36:35,339 ends of the spectrum and I think Aaron 1663 00:36:35,339 --> 00:36:37,060 ends of the spectrum and I think Aaron that's one thing that we have to be 1664 00:36:37,060 --> 00:36:37,070 that's one thing that we have to be 1665 00:36:37,070 --> 00:36:39,859 that's one thing that we have to be constantly balancing against a correct 1666 00:36:39,859 --> 00:36:39,869 constantly balancing against a correct 1667 00:36:39,869 --> 00:36:42,920 constantly balancing against a correct decision you know sometimes we can get 1668 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:42,930 decision you know sometimes we can get 1669 00:36:42,930 --> 00:36:45,980 decision you know sometimes we can get in the trap or a mold of feeling like we 1670 00:36:45,980 --> 00:36:45,990 in the trap or a mold of feeling like we 1671 00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:49,280 in the trap or a mold of feeling like we might make a mistake and a lot of times 1672 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:49,290 might make a mistake and a lot of times 1673 00:36:49,290 --> 00:36:51,200 might make a mistake and a lot of times the greatest mistake of all is not 1674 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:51,210 the greatest mistake of all is not 1675 00:36:51,210 --> 00:36:52,970 the greatest mistake of all is not making a decision well I think that's 1676 00:36:52,970 --> 00:36:52,980 making a decision well I think that's 1677 00:36:52,980 --> 00:36:54,710 making a decision well I think that's right and I do think the other thing is 1678 00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:54,720 right and I do think the other thing is 1679 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:58,579 right and I do think the other thing is I think you have to be able and be able 1680 00:36:58,579 --> 00:36:58,589 I think you have to be able and be able 1681 00:36:58,589 --> 00:37:00,380 I think you have to be able and be able to accept the criticism and the fact 1682 00:37:00,380 --> 00:37:00,390 to accept the criticism and the fact 1683 00:37:00,390 --> 00:37:02,599 to accept the criticism and the fact that you made a bad decision and reverse 1684 00:37:02,599 --> 00:37:02,609 that you made a bad decision and reverse 1685 00:37:02,609 --> 00:37:03,890 that you made a bad decision and reverse yourself if you have to i think that's 1686 00:37:03,890 --> 00:37:03,900 yourself if you have to i think that's 1687 00:37:03,900 --> 00:37:09,440 yourself if you have to i think that's another absalon characteristic we've 1688 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:09,450 another absalon characteristic we've 1689 00:37:09,450 --> 00:37:12,079 another absalon characteristic we've talked right up until now about the 1690 00:37:12,079 --> 00:37:12,089 talked right up until now about the 1691 00:37:12,089 --> 00:37:15,109 talked right up until now about the details of managing a project that both 1692 00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:15,119 details of managing a project that both 1693 00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:17,359 details of managing a project that both you and Henry have also managed line 1694 00:37:17,359 --> 00:37:17,369 you and Henry have also managed line 1695 00:37:17,369 --> 00:37:19,190 you and Henry have also managed line organizations and I'd like you to 1696 00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:19,200 organizations and I'd like you to 1697 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,040 organizations and I'd like you to comment on what you perceive is the 1698 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:22,050 comment on what you perceive is the 1699 00:37:22,050 --> 00:37:23,990 comment on what you perceive is the differences in the management of a line 1700 00:37:23,990 --> 00:37:24,000 differences in the management of a line 1701 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,190 differences in the management of a line organization versus a product there are 1702 00:37:28,190 --> 00:37:28,200 organization versus a product there are 1703 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:29,569 organization versus a product there are a lot of similarities there's no 1704 00:37:29,569 --> 00:37:29,579 a lot of similarities there's no 1705 00:37:29,579 --> 00:37:30,920 a lot of similarities there's no question there are a lot of similarities 1706 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:30,930 question there are a lot of similarities 1707 00:37:30,930 --> 00:37:34,430 question there are a lot of similarities in managing the project in managing the 1708 00:37:34,430 --> 00:37:34,440 in managing the project in managing the 1709 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,240 in managing the project in managing the line organization I think the biggest 1710 00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:38,250 line organization I think the biggest 1711 00:37:38,250 --> 00:37:40,190 line organization I think the biggest difference is I see and I'd like to hear 1712 00:37:40,190 --> 00:37:40,200 difference is I see and I'd like to hear 1713 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:41,300 difference is I see and I'd like to hear what you have to say in Henry I say 1714 00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:41,310 what you have to say in Henry I say 1715 00:37:41,310 --> 00:37:43,280 what you have to say in Henry I say after I finish but I I think the biggest 1716 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:43,290 after I finish but I I think the biggest 1717 00:37:43,290 --> 00:37:45,079 after I finish but I I think the biggest difference I see in managing a line 1718 00:37:45,079 --> 00:37:45,089 difference I see in managing a line 1719 00:37:45,089 --> 00:37:47,839 difference I see in managing a line organization that it does take a lot 1720 00:37:47,839 --> 00:37:47,849 organization that it does take a lot 1721 00:37:47,849 --> 00:37:50,750 organization that it does take a lot more time with your people in a line 1722 00:37:50,750 --> 00:37:50,760 more time with your people in a line 1723 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,730 more time with your people in a line organization certainly a center director 1724 00:37:52,730 --> 00:37:52,740 organization certainly a center director 1725 00:37:52,740 --> 00:37:54,470 organization certainly a center director and certainly as a director of research 1726 00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:54,480 and certainly as a director of research 1727 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,050 and certainly as a director of research and engineering than it does in managing 1728 00:37:57,050 --> 00:37:57,060 and engineering than it does in managing 1729 00:37:57,060 --> 00:37:59,990 and engineering than it does in managing a project takes a lot more time you 1730 00:37:59,990 --> 00:38:00,000 a project takes a lot more time you 1731 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,730 a project takes a lot more time you still have trade-offs as managing 1732 00:38:01,730 --> 00:38:01,740 still have trade-offs as managing 1733 00:38:01,740 --> 00:38:04,430 still have trade-offs as managing institution versus managing a project 1734 00:38:04,430 --> 00:38:04,440 institution versus managing a project 1735 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,000 institution versus managing a project it's not as strong on the cost and 1736 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:08,010 it's not as strong on the cost and 1737 00:38:08,010 --> 00:38:09,140 it's not as strong on the cost and schedule 1738 00:38:09,140 --> 00:38:09,150 schedule 1739 00:38:09,150 --> 00:38:11,870 schedule performance as much as is on parameter 1740 00:38:11,870 --> 00:38:11,880 performance as much as is on parameter 1741 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,900 performance as much as is on parameter parameters but like parameters so 1742 00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:14,910 parameters but like parameters so 1743 00:38:14,910 --> 00:38:16,519 parameters but like parameters so there's a lot of similarity and I think 1744 00:38:16,519 --> 00:38:16,529 there's a lot of similarity and I think 1745 00:38:16,529 --> 00:38:18,380 there's a lot of similarity and I think the fundamental but I do go back to say 1746 00:38:18,380 --> 00:38:18,390 the fundamental but I do go back to say 1747 00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:20,990 the fundamental but I do go back to say to you that the fundamental that way 1748 00:38:20,990 --> 00:38:21,000 to you that the fundamental that way 1749 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,309 to you that the fundamental that way that we start off this discussion the 1750 00:38:22,309 --> 00:38:22,319 that we start off this discussion the 1751 00:38:22,319 --> 00:38:24,319 that we start off this discussion the fundamental characteristics I think are 1752 00:38:24,319 --> 00:38:24,329 fundamental characteristics I think are 1753 00:38:24,329 --> 00:38:28,220 fundamental characteristics I think are about the same general I think you're 1754 00:38:28,220 --> 00:38:28,230 about the same general I think you're 1755 00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:31,039 about the same general I think you're right right on here and the the major 1756 00:38:31,039 --> 00:38:31,049 right right on here and the the major 1757 00:38:31,049 --> 00:38:33,260 right right on here and the the major difference that I see between being a 1758 00:38:33,260 --> 00:38:33,270 difference that I see between being a 1759 00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:36,049 difference that I see between being a project manager and being a director of 1760 00:38:36,049 --> 00:38:36,059 project manager and being a director of 1761 00:38:36,059 --> 00:38:39,410 project manager and being a director of a lion organization is that you have the 1762 00:38:39,410 --> 00:38:39,420 a lion organization is that you have the 1763 00:38:39,420 --> 00:38:43,220 a lion organization is that you have the administrative responsibilities your 1764 00:38:43,220 --> 00:38:43,230 administrative responsibilities your 1765 00:38:43,230 --> 00:38:46,579 administrative responsibilities your people as a lion organization we're 1766 00:38:46,579 --> 00:38:46,589 people as a lion organization we're 1767 00:38:46,589 --> 00:38:49,910 people as a lion organization we're generally a project manager spends very 1768 00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:49,920 generally a project manager spends very 1769 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,210 generally a project manager spends very little time in the administrative 1770 00:38:52,210 --> 00:38:52,220 little time in the administrative 1771 00:38:52,220 --> 00:38:55,130 little time in the administrative responsibilities with their people first 1772 00:38:55,130 --> 00:38:55,140 responsibilities with their people first 1773 00:38:55,140 --> 00:38:57,049 responsibilities with their people first off they don't have a large number of 1774 00:38:57,049 --> 00:38:57,059 off they don't have a large number of 1775 00:38:57,059 --> 00:38:58,510 off they don't have a large number of people that they have to supervise 1776 00:38:58,510 --> 00:38:58,520 people that they have to supervise 1777 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,670 people that they have to supervise directly they have a lot of people that 1778 00:39:01,670 --> 00:39:01,680 directly they have a lot of people that 1779 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,620 directly they have a lot of people that support them but they don't have to 1780 00:39:03,620 --> 00:39:03,630 support them but they don't have to 1781 00:39:03,630 --> 00:39:06,200 support them but they don't have to worry about the administrative part of 1782 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:06,210 worry about the administrative part of 1783 00:39:06,210 --> 00:39:08,599 worry about the administrative part of it and that's a large part of trying to 1784 00:39:08,599 --> 00:39:08,609 it and that's a large part of trying to 1785 00:39:08,609 --> 00:39:12,079 it and that's a large part of trying to keep the spirit up the the can-do 1786 00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:12,089 keep the spirit up the the can-do 1787 00:39:12,089 --> 00:39:15,529 keep the spirit up the the can-do attitude up in an organization and that 1788 00:39:15,529 --> 00:39:15,539 attitude up in an organization and that 1789 00:39:15,539 --> 00:39:18,109 attitude up in an organization and that responsibility of 40 followers online 1790 00:39:18,109 --> 00:39:18,119 responsibility of 40 followers online 1791 00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:19,940 responsibility of 40 followers online organization tility head say about that 1792 00:39:19,940 --> 00:39:19,950 organization tility head say about that 1793 00:39:19,950 --> 00:39:23,930 organization tility head say about that well I think Henry's point I is the one 1794 00:39:23,930 --> 00:39:23,940 well I think Henry's point I is the one 1795 00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:26,240 well I think Henry's point I is the one that comes to my mind is is that line 1796 00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:26,250 that comes to my mind is is that line 1797 00:39:26,250 --> 00:39:28,910 that comes to my mind is is that line organizations management's primary 1798 00:39:28,910 --> 00:39:28,920 organizations management's primary 1799 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,859 organizations management's primary responsibility is the development of 1800 00:39:30,859 --> 00:39:30,869 responsibility is the development of 1801 00:39:30,869 --> 00:39:34,460 responsibility is the development of their people and the people are then 1802 00:39:34,460 --> 00:39:34,470 their people and the people are then 1803 00:39:34,470 --> 00:39:38,450 their people and the people are then used to support the programs so it's a 1804 00:39:38,450 --> 00:39:38,460 used to support the programs so it's a 1805 00:39:38,460 --> 00:39:42,529 used to support the programs so it's a it's much more of a paternal kind of 1806 00:39:42,529 --> 00:39:42,539 it's much more of a paternal kind of 1807 00:39:42,539 --> 00:39:46,809 it's much more of a paternal kind of management as opposed to objective 1808 00:39:46,809 --> 00:39:46,819 management as opposed to objective 1809 00:39:46,819 --> 00:39:51,270 management as opposed to objective achievement kind of management 1810 00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:51,280 1811 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,809 what do you see to be the the most 1812 00:39:55,809 --> 00:39:55,819 what do you see to be the the most 1813 00:39:55,819 --> 00:39:58,240 what do you see to be the the most significant issues that we're going to 1814 00:39:58,240 --> 00:39:58,250 significant issues that we're going to 1815 00:39:58,250 --> 00:40:01,020 significant issues that we're going to face in the next five to ten years or 1816 00:40:01,020 --> 00:40:01,030 face in the next five to ten years or 1817 00:40:01,030 --> 00:40:09,640 face in the next five to ten years or well I think as far as a NASA is 1818 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:09,650 well I think as far as a NASA is 1819 00:40:09,650 --> 00:40:11,829 well I think as far as a NASA is concerned NASA specifically I think we 1820 00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:11,839 concerned NASA specifically I think we 1821 00:40:11,839 --> 00:40:15,760 concerned NASA specifically I think we need to continue to maintain our 1822 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:15,770 need to continue to maintain our 1823 00:40:15,770 --> 00:40:18,370 need to continue to maintain our technical excellence I feel that we need 1824 00:40:18,370 --> 00:40:18,380 technical excellence I feel that we need 1825 00:40:18,380 --> 00:40:23,500 technical excellence I feel that we need to continue to bring on good people we 1826 00:40:23,500 --> 00:40:23,510 to continue to bring on good people we 1827 00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:24,970 to continue to bring on good people we need to continue to train our good 1828 00:40:24,970 --> 00:40:24,980 need to continue to train our good 1829 00:40:24,980 --> 00:40:29,400 need to continue to train our good people we need to give them the right a 1830 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:29,410 people we need to give them the right a 1831 00:40:29,410 --> 00:40:31,990 people we need to give them the right a working environment in terms of 1832 00:40:31,990 --> 00:40:32,000 working environment in terms of 1833 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,530 working environment in terms of facilities in terms of laboratories we 1834 00:40:35,530 --> 00:40:35,540 facilities in terms of laboratories we 1835 00:40:35,540 --> 00:40:37,859 facilities in terms of laboratories we want to stay a technically proficient 1836 00:40:37,859 --> 00:40:37,869 want to stay a technically proficient 1837 00:40:37,869 --> 00:40:40,510 want to stay a technically proficient organization and I think that's probably 1838 00:40:40,510 --> 00:40:40,520 organization and I think that's probably 1839 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,359 organization and I think that's probably the fundamental thing for all NASA 1840 00:40:43,359 --> 00:40:43,369 the fundamental thing for all NASA 1841 00:40:43,369 --> 00:40:47,710 the fundamental thing for all NASA centers we want to be sure they have the 1842 00:40:47,710 --> 00:40:47,720 centers we want to be sure they have the 1843 00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:52,359 centers we want to be sure they have the right capability to maintain their 1844 00:40:52,359 --> 00:40:52,369 right capability to maintain their 1845 00:40:52,369 --> 00:40:54,130 right capability to maintain their educational proficiency their formal 1846 00:40:54,130 --> 00:40:54,140 educational proficiency their formal 1847 00:40:54,140 --> 00:40:55,839 educational proficiency their formal education whatever field it may be I 1848 00:40:55,839 --> 00:40:55,849 education whatever field it may be I 1849 00:40:55,849 --> 00:40:59,170 education whatever field it may be I think that's important I think we need 1850 00:40:59,170 --> 00:40:59,180 think that's important I think we need 1851 00:40:59,180 --> 00:41:02,020 think that's important I think we need to issue and I personally have talked 1852 00:41:02,020 --> 00:41:02,030 to issue and I personally have talked 1853 00:41:02,030 --> 00:41:04,569 to issue and I personally have talked many times I think we need to have 1854 00:41:04,569 --> 00:41:04,579 many times I think we need to have 1855 00:41:04,579 --> 00:41:08,200 many times I think we need to have successful programs I think failures are 1856 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:08,210 successful programs I think failures are 1857 00:41:08,210 --> 00:41:11,349 successful programs I think failures are very devastating and we need to be able 1858 00:41:11,349 --> 00:41:11,359 very devastating and we need to be able 1859 00:41:11,359 --> 00:41:14,440 very devastating and we need to be able to maintain the momentum whether it's a 1860 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:14,450 to maintain the momentum whether it's a 1861 00:41:14,450 --> 00:41:17,980 to maintain the momentum whether it's a man program whether it's a man program 1862 00:41:17,980 --> 00:41:17,990 man program whether it's a man program 1863 00:41:17,990 --> 00:41:21,069 man program whether it's a man program we need to have successful programs and 1864 00:41:21,069 --> 00:41:21,079 we need to have successful programs and 1865 00:41:21,079 --> 00:41:25,450 we need to have successful programs and we need to minimize our risks are 1866 00:41:25,450 --> 00:41:25,460 we need to minimize our risks are 1867 00:41:25,460 --> 00:41:27,819 we need to minimize our risks are failures on the other hand we can't be 1868 00:41:27,819 --> 00:41:27,829 failures on the other hand we can't be 1869 00:41:27,829 --> 00:41:29,200 failures on the other hand we can't be afraid to do something we've got to be 1870 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:29,210 afraid to do something we've got to be 1871 00:41:29,210 --> 00:41:32,920 afraid to do something we've got to be bold we've got to be aggressive so we 1872 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:32,930 bold we've got to be aggressive so we 1873 00:41:32,930 --> 00:41:36,400 bold we've got to be aggressive so we can't let that shadow the way we do 1874 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:36,410 can't let that shadow the way we do 1875 00:41:36,410 --> 00:41:38,859 can't let that shadow the way we do things so I would say those are to me 1876 00:41:38,859 --> 00:41:38,869 things so I would say those are to me 1877 00:41:38,869 --> 00:41:40,750 things so I would say those are to me the most significant challenges that we 1878 00:41:40,750 --> 00:41:40,760 the most significant challenges that we 1879 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,359 the most significant challenges that we have in the future the other I guess the 1880 00:41:43,359 --> 00:41:43,369 have in the future the other I guess the 1881 00:41:43,369 --> 00:41:46,450 have in the future the other I guess the final point is with the advent of the 1882 00:41:46,450 --> 00:41:46,460 final point is with the advent of the 1883 00:41:46,460 --> 00:41:47,829 final point is with the advent of the thing I talked about for multiple 1884 00:41:47,829 --> 00:41:47,839 thing I talked about for multiple 1885 00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:50,109 thing I talked about for multiple programs large programs things we'd like 1886 00:41:50,109 --> 00:41:50,119 programs large programs things we'd like 1887 00:41:50,119 --> 00:41:52,240 programs large programs things we'd like to do in the future I think we need to 1888 00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:52,250 to do in the future I think we need to 1889 00:41:52,250 --> 00:41:55,359 to do in the future I think we need to become even more productive than we are 1890 00:41:55,359 --> 00:41:55,369 become even more productive than we are 1891 00:41:55,369 --> 00:41:56,880 become even more productive than we are we have been in the 1892 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:56,890 we have been in the 1893 00:41:56,890 --> 00:42:01,140 we have been in the past and that's in all areas Andrey what 1894 00:42:01,140 --> 00:42:01,150 past and that's in all areas Andrey what 1895 00:42:01,150 --> 00:42:02,880 past and that's in all areas Andrey what do you see is the meet you I agree with 1896 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:02,890 do you see is the meet you I agree with 1897 00:42:02,890 --> 00:42:06,110 do you see is the meet you I agree with aarón totally there's two two key areas 1898 00:42:06,110 --> 00:42:06,120 aarón totally there's two two key areas 1899 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:10,530 aarón totally there's two two key areas one is developing confidence and 1900 00:42:10,530 --> 00:42:10,540 one is developing confidence and 1901 00:42:10,540 --> 00:42:14,940 one is developing confidence and maintaining confidence in our people you 1902 00:42:14,940 --> 00:42:14,950 maintaining confidence in our people you 1903 00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:16,500 maintaining confidence in our people you know you have to have confidence in 1904 00:42:16,500 --> 00:42:16,510 know you have to have confidence in 1905 00:42:16,510 --> 00:42:20,040 know you have to have confidence in yourself you have to be able to know 1906 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:20,050 yourself you have to be able to know 1907 00:42:20,050 --> 00:42:22,500 yourself you have to be able to know where you're coming from in order to 1908 00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:22,510 where you're coming from in order to 1909 00:42:22,510 --> 00:42:25,260 where you're coming from in order to direct and manage a program and that 1910 00:42:25,260 --> 00:42:25,270 direct and manage a program and that 1911 00:42:25,270 --> 00:42:27,750 direct and manage a program and that takes time to develop especially with 1912 00:42:27,750 --> 00:42:27,760 takes time to develop especially with 1913 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,820 takes time to develop especially with the young people I would say five seven 1914 00:42:29,820 --> 00:42:29,830 the young people I would say five seven 1915 00:42:29,830 --> 00:42:32,370 the young people I would say five seven eight years to develop that confidence 1916 00:42:32,370 --> 00:42:32,380 eight years to develop that confidence 1917 00:42:32,380 --> 00:42:35,760 eight years to develop that confidence in themselves and I think we've been 1918 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:35,770 in themselves and I think we've been 1919 00:42:35,770 --> 00:42:38,790 in themselves and I think we've been blessed with that I also think that we 1920 00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:38,800 blessed with that I also think that we 1921 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,070 blessed with that I also think that we have to continue to look at more 1922 00:42:41,070 --> 00:42:41,080 have to continue to look at more 1923 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,830 have to continue to look at more efficient ways and better ways of doing 1924 00:42:43,830 --> 00:42:43,840 efficient ways and better ways of doing 1925 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,310 efficient ways and better ways of doing business to eliminate duplication it is 1926 00:42:47,310 --> 00:42:47,320 business to eliminate duplication it is 1927 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,590 business to eliminate duplication it is not possible for us to continue doing 1928 00:42:49,590 --> 00:42:49,600 not possible for us to continue doing 1929 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,320 not possible for us to continue doing business the way we are and support all 1930 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:52,330 business the way we are and support all 1931 00:42:52,330 --> 00:42:54,450 business the way we are and support all of the programs that's on the plate and 1932 00:42:54,450 --> 00:42:54,460 of the programs that's on the plate and 1933 00:42:54,460 --> 00:42:56,790 of the programs that's on the plate and do all the things that we are to be 1934 00:42:56,790 --> 00:42:56,800 do all the things that we are to be 1935 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,070 do all the things that we are to be doing you know we're just now to the 1936 00:42:59,070 --> 00:42:59,080 doing you know we're just now to the 1937 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,350 doing you know we're just now to the point of where we can make space a fun 1938 00:43:01,350 --> 00:43:01,360 point of where we can make space a fun 1939 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:05,460 point of where we can make space a fun place to work and play in and there's a 1940 00:43:05,460 --> 00:43:05,470 place to work and play in and there's a 1941 00:43:05,470 --> 00:43:07,710 place to work and play in and there's a lot more work out there that needs to be 1942 00:43:07,710 --> 00:43:07,720 lot more work out there that needs to be 1943 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:11,970 lot more work out there that needs to be done and we can get around to so I see 1944 00:43:11,970 --> 00:43:11,980 done and we can get around to so I see 1945 00:43:11,980 --> 00:43:14,070 done and we can get around to so I see that is the two major areas that we have 1946 00:43:14,070 --> 00:43:14,080 that is the two major areas that we have 1947 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:19,320 that is the two major areas that we have to work on Aaron what should young 1948 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:19,330 to work on Aaron what should young 1949 00:43:19,330 --> 00:43:21,840 to work on Aaron what should young engineers or other professionals just 1950 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:21,850 engineers or other professionals just 1951 00:43:21,850 --> 00:43:25,110 engineers or other professionals just starting out on their careers in NASA do 1952 00:43:25,110 --> 00:43:25,120 starting out on their careers in NASA do 1953 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,510 starting out on their careers in NASA do to prepare themselves for positions in 1954 00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:27,520 to prepare themselves for positions in 1955 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,270 to prepare themselves for positions in management well I think first and 1956 00:43:30,270 --> 00:43:30,280 management well I think first and 1957 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:31,950 management well I think first and foremost whatever their field is as you 1958 00:43:31,950 --> 00:43:31,960 foremost whatever their field is as you 1959 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:33,900 foremost whatever their field is as you pointed out whether it be in the 1960 00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:33,910 pointed out whether it be in the 1961 00:43:33,910 --> 00:43:35,490 pointed out whether it be in the business management area whether it be 1962 00:43:35,490 --> 00:43:35,500 business management area whether it be 1963 00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:37,890 business management area whether it be in the human resources area or whether 1964 00:43:37,890 --> 00:43:37,900 in the human resources area or whether 1965 00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:39,930 in the human resources area or whether it be in the technical engineering 1966 00:43:39,930 --> 00:43:39,940 it be in the technical engineering 1967 00:43:39,940 --> 00:43:42,300 it be in the technical engineering science area operations area I think you 1968 00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:42,310 science area operations area I think you 1969 00:43:42,310 --> 00:43:44,130 science area operations area I think you need a good formal background I think 1970 00:43:44,130 --> 00:43:44,140 need a good formal background I think 1971 00:43:44,140 --> 00:43:46,110 need a good formal background I think you cannot get away from a good formal 1972 00:43:46,110 --> 00:43:46,120 you cannot get away from a good formal 1973 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,380 you cannot get away from a good formal background in education I think that's 1974 00:43:49,380 --> 00:43:49,390 background in education I think that's 1975 00:43:49,390 --> 00:43:52,740 background in education I think that's extremely important I think as we start 1976 00:43:52,740 --> 00:43:52,750 extremely important I think as we start 1977 00:43:52,750 --> 00:43:55,740 extremely important I think as we start off this discussion i do think trying to 1978 00:43:55,740 --> 00:43:55,750 off this discussion i do think trying to 1979 00:43:55,750 --> 00:43:59,550 off this discussion i do think trying to get some early hands-on experience in a 1980 00:43:59,550 --> 00:43:59,560 get some early hands-on experience in a 1981 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,750 get some early hands-on experience in a total systems aspect of a program is 1982 00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:03,760 total systems aspect of a program is 1983 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,390 total systems aspect of a program is very beneficial and I think that ought 1984 00:44:06,390 --> 00:44:06,400 very beneficial and I think that ought 1985 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:07,960 very beneficial and I think that ought to be in the hardware area if you 1986 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:07,970 to be in the hardware area if you 1987 00:44:07,970 --> 00:44:10,810 to be in the hardware area if you and even in the analysis area if you can 1988 00:44:10,810 --> 00:44:10,820 and even in the analysis area if you can 1989 00:44:10,820 --> 00:44:13,630 and even in the analysis area if you can or some some type of hands-on experience 1990 00:44:13,630 --> 00:44:13,640 or some some type of hands-on experience 1991 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,609 or some some type of hands-on experience whether it be in the engineering area of 1992 00:44:15,609 --> 00:44:15,619 whether it be in the engineering area of 1993 00:44:15,619 --> 00:44:18,070 whether it be in the engineering area of science area operations area or even in 1994 00:44:18,070 --> 00:44:18,080 science area operations area or even in 1995 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:19,810 science area operations area or even in as i said the human resource or business 1996 00:44:19,810 --> 00:44:19,820 as i said the human resource or business 1997 00:44:19,820 --> 00:44:21,250 as i said the human resource or business management I think it's very important 1998 00:44:21,250 --> 00:44:21,260 management I think it's very important 1999 00:44:21,260 --> 00:44:23,500 management I think it's very important to get hands on and start it from the 2000 00:44:23,500 --> 00:44:23,510 to get hands on and start it from the 2001 00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:24,910 to get hands on and start it from the grounds of the ground up sound like 2002 00:44:24,910 --> 00:44:24,920 grounds of the ground up sound like 2003 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,190 grounds of the ground up sound like that's extremely important and I think 2004 00:44:27,190 --> 00:44:27,200 that's extremely important and I think 2005 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,520 that's extremely important and I think the other attributes as I said before 2006 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:29,530 the other attributes as I said before 2007 00:44:29,530 --> 00:44:34,060 the other attributes as I said before the patient's the integrity honesty and 2008 00:44:34,060 --> 00:44:34,070 the patient's the integrity honesty and 2009 00:44:34,070 --> 00:44:36,280 the patient's the integrity honesty and being able to communicate are the really 2010 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:36,290 being able to communicate are the really 2011 00:44:36,290 --> 00:44:39,070 being able to communicate are the really the attributes for a young person if he 2012 00:44:39,070 --> 00:44:39,080 the attributes for a young person if he 2013 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:43,450 the attributes for a young person if he wants to to make it happen you might say 2014 00:44:43,450 --> 00:44:43,460 wants to to make it happen you might say 2015 00:44:43,460 --> 00:44:46,170 wants to to make it happen you might say in a successful program management arena 2016 00:44:46,170 --> 00:44:46,180 in a successful program management arena 2017 00:44:46,180 --> 00:44:49,750 in a successful program management arena and would you want to comment on I'm not 2018 00:44:49,750 --> 00:44:49,760 and would you want to comment on I'm not 2019 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,550 and would you want to comment on I'm not too sure i can add a whole lot toward 2020 00:44:51,550 --> 00:44:51,560 too sure i can add a whole lot toward 2021 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,460 too sure i can add a whole lot toward hearing that came up with i usually can 2022 00:44:54,460 --> 00:44:54,470 hearing that came up with i usually can 2023 00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:56,800 hearing that came up with i usually can always find something dead into 2024 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:56,810 always find something dead into 2025 00:44:56,810 --> 00:45:01,510 always find something dead into something but that's the that's the key 2026 00:45:01,510 --> 00:45:01,520 something but that's the that's the key 2027 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,420 something but that's the that's the key things that you have to develop 2028 00:45:04,420 --> 00:45:04,430 things that you have to develop 2029 00:45:04,430 --> 00:45:07,089 things that you have to develop confidence in yourself and one way a 2030 00:45:07,089 --> 00:45:07,099 confidence in yourself and one way a 2031 00:45:07,099 --> 00:45:09,280 confidence in yourself and one way a person goes about doing that is being 2032 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:09,290 person goes about doing that is being 2033 00:45:09,290 --> 00:45:12,609 person goes about doing that is being able to take a project and do it so you 2034 00:45:12,609 --> 00:45:12,619 able to take a project and do it so you 2035 00:45:12,619 --> 00:45:15,130 able to take a project and do it so you get a feel for what it takes to do that 2036 00:45:15,130 --> 00:45:15,140 get a feel for what it takes to do that 2037 00:45:15,140 --> 00:45:17,440 get a feel for what it takes to do that job and then you get a feel for what it 2038 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:17,450 job and then you get a feel for what it 2039 00:45:17,450 --> 00:45:19,270 job and then you get a feel for what it takes to do a little bit toward your job 2040 00:45:19,270 --> 00:45:19,280 takes to do a little bit toward your job 2041 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,900 takes to do a little bit toward your job and a little bit bigger job and I'm a 2042 00:45:22,900 --> 00:45:22,910 and a little bit bigger job and I'm a 2043 00:45:22,910 --> 00:45:25,690 and a little bit bigger job and I'm a firm believer on a person starting out 2044 00:45:25,690 --> 00:45:25,700 firm believer on a person starting out 2045 00:45:25,700 --> 00:45:27,640 firm believer on a person starting out at the bottom and an organization and 2046 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:27,650 at the bottom and an organization and 2047 00:45:27,650 --> 00:45:29,620 at the bottom and an organization and learning the trade and working the way 2048 00:45:29,620 --> 00:45:29,630 learning the trade and working the way 2049 00:45:29,630 --> 00:45:32,440 learning the trade and working the way up through the through the system and I 2050 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:32,450 up through the through the system and I 2051 00:45:32,450 --> 00:45:34,150 up through the through the system and I think it's those first years the 2052 00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:34,160 think it's those first years the 2053 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:35,770 think it's those first years the foundation that you get during those 2054 00:45:35,770 --> 00:45:35,780 foundation that you get during those 2055 00:45:35,780 --> 00:45:38,230 foundation that you get during those first few years there's extremely 2056 00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:38,240 first few years there's extremely 2057 00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:41,380 first few years there's extremely crucial to doing a good job having the 2058 00:45:41,380 --> 00:45:41,390 crucial to doing a good job having the 2059 00:45:41,390 --> 00:45:43,810 crucial to doing a good job having the tools to do a good job down let me tell 2060 00:45:43,810 --> 00:45:43,820 tools to do a good job down let me tell 2061 00:45:43,820 --> 00:45:45,010 tools to do a good job down let me tell you into this Joe you've been around a 2062 00:45:45,010 --> 00:45:45,020 you into this Joe you've been around a 2063 00:45:45,020 --> 00:45:47,260 you into this Joe you've been around a long time but you seem you've seen it 2064 00:45:47,260 --> 00:45:47,270 long time but you seem you've seen it 2065 00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:50,050 long time but you seem you've seen it all happened what's your take on it well 2066 00:45:50,050 --> 00:45:50,060 all happened what's your take on it well 2067 00:45:50,060 --> 00:45:54,190 all happened what's your take on it well I think I'm a subscriber as you and 2068 00:45:54,190 --> 00:45:54,200 I think I'm a subscriber as you and 2069 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,440 I think I'm a subscriber as you and Henry are to the early hands-on 2070 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:56,450 Henry are to the early hands-on 2071 00:45:56,450 --> 00:45:59,530 Henry are to the early hands-on experience and I think there's a reason 2072 00:45:59,530 --> 00:45:59,540 experience and I think there's a reason 2073 00:45:59,540 --> 00:46:03,700 experience and I think there's a reason for that in the sense that once you have 2074 00:46:03,700 --> 00:46:03,710 for that in the sense that once you have 2075 00:46:03,710 --> 00:46:07,240 for that in the sense that once you have become expert in something yourself when 2076 00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:07,250 become expert in something yourself when 2077 00:46:07,250 --> 00:46:09,220 become expert in something yourself when you move into positions where you deal 2078 00:46:09,220 --> 00:46:09,230 you move into positions where you deal 2079 00:46:09,230 --> 00:46:10,960 you move into positions where you deal with subjects that you're not so 2080 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:10,970 with subjects that you're not so 2081 00:46:10,970 --> 00:46:13,750 with subjects that you're not so knowledgeable about the content you have 2082 00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:13,760 knowledgeable about the content you have 2083 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,260 knowledgeable about the content you have learned how to recognize the 2084 00:46:16,260 --> 00:46:16,270 learned how to recognize the 2085 00:46:16,270 --> 00:46:18,750 learned how to recognize the of an expert because it has 2086 00:46:18,750 --> 00:46:18,760 of an expert because it has 2087 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,230 of an expert because it has characteristics or tool marks and it 2088 00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:22,240 characteristics or tool marks and it 2089 00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:24,960 characteristics or tool marks and it helps you in evaluating the decisions 2090 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:24,970 helps you in evaluating the decisions 2091 00:46:24,970 --> 00:46:30,630 helps you in evaluating the decisions you have to make we've talked about our 2092 00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:30,640 you have to make we've talked about our 2093 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,880 you have to make we've talked about our relationships with the contractor and 2094 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:32,890 relationships with the contractor and 2095 00:46:32,890 --> 00:46:34,800 relationships with the contractor and within the various elements within the 2096 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:34,810 within the various elements within the 2097 00:46:34,810 --> 00:46:37,320 within the various elements within the center one of the things that it might 2098 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:37,330 center one of the things that it might 2099 00:46:37,330 --> 00:46:39,420 center one of the things that it might be worthwhile to talk to Aaron about 2100 00:46:39,420 --> 00:46:39,430 be worthwhile to talk to Aaron about 2101 00:46:39,430 --> 00:46:41,520 be worthwhile to talk to Aaron about program management as we're doing it in 2102 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:41,530 program management as we're doing it in 2103 00:46:41,530 --> 00:46:44,130 program management as we're doing it in the station is our relationships with 2104 00:46:44,130 --> 00:46:44,140 the station is our relationships with 2105 00:46:44,140 --> 00:46:46,380 the station is our relationships with our headquarters and our sister setters 2106 00:46:46,380 --> 00:46:46,390 our headquarters and our sister setters 2107 00:46:46,390 --> 00:46:48,090 our headquarters and our sister setters well I think that's a good point I'm 2108 00:46:48,090 --> 00:46:48,100 well I think that's a good point I'm 2109 00:46:48,100 --> 00:46:50,820 well I think that's a good point I'm really glad you address that I think it 2110 00:46:50,820 --> 00:46:50,830 really glad you address that I think it 2111 00:46:50,830 --> 00:46:52,830 really glad you address that I think it gets back to really what I said before 2112 00:46:52,830 --> 00:46:52,840 gets back to really what I said before 2113 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,070 gets back to really what I said before on item I said before is teamwork 2114 00:46:55,070 --> 00:46:55,080 on item I said before is teamwork 2115 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,200 on item I said before is teamwork there's no question that teamwork is 2116 00:46:58,200 --> 00:46:58,210 there's no question that teamwork is 2117 00:46:58,210 --> 00:47:01,350 there's no question that teamwork is really is really the element i guess the 2118 00:47:01,350 --> 00:47:01,360 really is really the element i guess the 2119 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,180 really is really the element i guess the underlying element of all success I 2120 00:47:03,180 --> 00:47:03,190 underlying element of all success I 2121 00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:05,790 underlying element of all success I think we've got to have teamwork with 2122 00:47:05,790 --> 00:47:05,800 think we've got to have teamwork with 2123 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,090 think we've got to have teamwork with our with our centers but the centers 2124 00:47:09,090 --> 00:47:09,100 our with our centers but the centers 2125 00:47:09,100 --> 00:47:11,520 our with our centers but the centers within NASA and we certainly have to 2126 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:11,530 within NASA and we certainly have to 2127 00:47:11,530 --> 00:47:14,610 within NASA and we certainly have to support the program directors and the 2128 00:47:14,610 --> 00:47:14,620 support the program directors and the 2129 00:47:14,620 --> 00:47:16,500 support the program directors and the assoc administrators and headquarters 2130 00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:16,510 assoc administrators and headquarters 2131 00:47:16,510 --> 00:47:18,750 assoc administrators and headquarters because they are really the people that 2132 00:47:18,750 --> 00:47:18,760 because they are really the people that 2133 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,610 because they are really the people that are setting the stage for the whole 2134 00:47:20,610 --> 00:47:20,620 are setting the stage for the whole 2135 00:47:20,620 --> 00:47:22,530 are setting the stage for the whole program and I think we need to have 2136 00:47:22,530 --> 00:47:22,540 program and I think we need to have 2137 00:47:22,540 --> 00:47:24,930 program and I think we need to have teamwork with them and for them and with 2138 00:47:24,930 --> 00:47:24,940 teamwork with them and for them and with 2139 00:47:24,940 --> 00:47:26,010 teamwork with them and for them and with the center's I think that's extremely 2140 00:47:26,010 --> 00:47:26,020 the center's I think that's extremely 2141 00:47:26,020 --> 00:47:28,400 the center's I think that's extremely important and I think I've seen that 2142 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:28,410 important and I think I've seen that 2143 00:47:28,410 --> 00:47:30,900 important and I think I've seen that come a long way I think we have come a 2144 00:47:30,900 --> 00:47:30,910 come a long way I think we have come a 2145 00:47:30,910 --> 00:47:32,730 come a long way I think we have come a long way in that regard I think we all 2146 00:47:32,730 --> 00:47:32,740 long way in that regard I think we all 2147 00:47:32,740 --> 00:47:34,500 long way in that regard I think we all recognize that's going to be the element 2148 00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:34,510 recognize that's going to be the element 2149 00:47:34,510 --> 00:47:38,430 recognize that's going to be the element of success both our man programs and our 2150 00:47:38,430 --> 00:47:38,440 of success both our man programs and our 2151 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,110 of success both our man programs and our unmanned programs and I think we're 2152 00:47:40,110 --> 00:47:40,120 unmanned programs and I think we're 2153 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:41,880 unmanned programs and I think we're demonstrating that more and more every 2154 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:41,890 demonstrating that more and more every 2155 00:47:41,890 --> 00:47:44,130 demonstrating that more and more every day with the leadership we have of the 2156 00:47:44,130 --> 00:47:44,140 day with the leadership we have of the 2157 00:47:44,140 --> 00:47:46,440 day with the leadership we have of the center directors and the Sochi 2158 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:46,450 center directors and the Sochi 2159 00:47:46,450 --> 00:47:47,550 center directors and the Sochi administrators and with the 2160 00:47:47,550 --> 00:47:47,560 administrators and with the 2161 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:48,450 administrators and with the administrator and deputy administrator 2162 00:47:48,450 --> 00:47:48,460 administrator and deputy administrator 2163 00:47:48,460 --> 00:47:50,660 administrator and deputy administrator so I think it's extremely important 2164 00:47:50,660 --> 00:47:50,670 so I think it's extremely important 2165 00:47:50,670 --> 00:47:53,000 so I think it's extremely important every how do you see the relationship 2166 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:53,010 every how do you see the relationship 2167 00:47:53,010 --> 00:47:55,350 every how do you see the relationship amongst the various directors of 2168 00:47:55,350 --> 00:47:55,360 amongst the various directors of 2169 00:47:55,360 --> 00:48:04,030 amongst the various directors of engineering at the Centers 2170 00:48:04,030 --> 00:48:04,040 2171 00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,770 III don't know quite how to answer that 2172 00:48:06,770 --> 00:48:06,780 III don't know quite how to answer that 2173 00:48:06,780 --> 00:48:09,460 III don't know quite how to answer that because i don't know how it used to be 2174 00:48:09,460 --> 00:48:09,470 because i don't know how it used to be 2175 00:48:09,470 --> 00:48:14,510 because i don't know how it used to be that good but i tend to agree with aarón 2176 00:48:14,510 --> 00:48:14,520 that good but i tend to agree with aarón 2177 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:18,700 that good but i tend to agree with aarón that the thing that we have to have is 2178 00:48:18,700 --> 00:48:18,710 that the thing that we have to have is 2179 00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:23,810 that the thing that we have to have is honesty integrity teamwork you know 2180 00:48:23,810 --> 00:48:23,820 honesty integrity teamwork you know 2181 00:48:23,820 --> 00:48:25,700 honesty integrity teamwork you know you've got to have those three and 2182 00:48:25,700 --> 00:48:25,710 you've got to have those three and 2183 00:48:25,710 --> 00:48:29,540 you've got to have those three and you've got to have us sincere desire to 2184 00:48:29,540 --> 00:48:29,550 you've got to have us sincere desire to 2185 00:48:29,550 --> 00:48:32,710 you've got to have us sincere desire to try to do what is right for the program 2186 00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:32,720 try to do what is right for the program 2187 00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:36,290 try to do what is right for the program you know you can't let too many other 2188 00:48:36,290 --> 00:48:36,300 you know you can't let too many other 2189 00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:41,240 you know you can't let too many other things creep in and as long as we can 2190 00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:41,250 things creep in and as long as we can 2191 00:48:41,250 --> 00:48:45,290 things creep in and as long as we can keep our focus on trying to figure out 2192 00:48:45,290 --> 00:48:45,300 keep our focus on trying to figure out 2193 00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:49,010 keep our focus on trying to figure out what is really the best thing to do and 2194 00:48:49,010 --> 00:48:49,020 what is really the best thing to do and 2195 00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:51,740 what is really the best thing to do and get on and do it and make a decision you 2196 00:48:51,740 --> 00:48:51,750 get on and do it and make a decision you 2197 00:48:51,750 --> 00:48:53,030 get on and do it and make a decision you know I think that's one of the most 2198 00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:53,040 know I think that's one of the most 2199 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:57,280 know I think that's one of the most important things that we can we can do 2200 00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:57,290 2201 00:48:57,290 --> 00:49:01,370 Erin I think we've covered most of the 2202 00:49:01,370 --> 00:49:01,380 Erin I think we've covered most of the 2203 00:49:01,380 --> 00:49:05,060 Erin I think we've covered most of the points that come to my mind as to what 2204 00:49:05,060 --> 00:49:05,070 points that come to my mind as to what 2205 00:49:05,070 --> 00:49:06,800 points that come to my mind as to what one should address in program and 2206 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:06,810 one should address in program and 2207 00:49:06,810 --> 00:49:09,560 one should address in program and project management but perhaps you would 2208 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:09,570 project management but perhaps you would 2209 00:49:09,570 --> 00:49:13,940 project management but perhaps you would like to summarize what you think of as 2210 00:49:13,940 --> 00:49:13,950 like to summarize what you think of as 2211 00:49:13,950 --> 00:49:19,130 like to summarize what you think of as the key tools that the manager has to 2212 00:49:19,130 --> 00:49:19,140 the key tools that the manager has to 2213 00:49:19,140 --> 00:49:22,970 the key tools that the manager has to achieve his objectives well the one 2214 00:49:22,970 --> 00:49:22,980 achieve his objectives well the one 2215 00:49:22,980 --> 00:49:26,750 achieve his objectives well the one thing that a manager doesn't like or two 2216 00:49:26,750 --> 00:49:26,760 thing that a manager doesn't like or two 2217 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:28,609 thing that a manager doesn't like or two things a manager doesn't like one is a 2218 00:49:28,609 --> 00:49:28,619 things a manager doesn't like one is a 2219 00:49:28,619 --> 00:49:32,960 things a manager doesn't like one is a surprise and the other as a failure and 2220 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:32,970 surprise and the other as a failure and 2221 00:49:32,970 --> 00:49:35,780 surprise and the other as a failure and that surprise could be in the budgetary 2222 00:49:35,780 --> 00:49:35,790 that surprise could be in the budgetary 2223 00:49:35,790 --> 00:49:39,020 that surprise could be in the budgetary the schedule area are the performance 2224 00:49:39,020 --> 00:49:39,030 the schedule area are the performance 2225 00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:40,790 the schedule area are the performance area and the same thing with the failure 2226 00:49:40,790 --> 00:49:40,800 area and the same thing with the failure 2227 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,170 area and the same thing with the failure whether it be a test failure or whether 2228 00:49:42,170 --> 00:49:42,180 whether it be a test failure or whether 2229 00:49:42,180 --> 00:49:45,080 whether it be a test failure or whether it be something more significant so I 2230 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:45,090 it be something more significant so I 2231 00:49:45,090 --> 00:49:48,740 it be something more significant so I think the with those underlying issues 2232 00:49:48,740 --> 00:49:48,750 think the with those underlying issues 2233 00:49:48,750 --> 00:49:53,000 think the with those underlying issues and those underlying stipulations I 2234 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:53,010 and those underlying stipulations I 2235 00:49:53,010 --> 00:49:56,270 and those underlying stipulations I think you have to have the intelligence 2236 00:49:56,270 --> 00:49:56,280 think you have to have the intelligence 2237 00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,930 think you have to have the intelligence and the staying power you might say 2238 00:49:59,930 --> 00:49:59,940 and the staying power you might say 2239 00:49:59,940 --> 00:50:04,099 and the staying power you might say which is what I would say is almost a 24 2240 00:50:04,099 --> 00:50:04,109 which is what I would say is almost a 24 2241 00:50:04,109 --> 00:50:08,150 which is what I would say is almost a 24 hour day 7 day a week job to keep on top 2242 00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:08,160 hour day 7 day a week job to keep on top 2243 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,910 hour day 7 day a week job to keep on top of those parameters so that you don't 2244 00:50:10,910 --> 00:50:10,920 of those parameters so that you don't 2245 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:12,740 of those parameters so that you don't get surprised you don't have a failure 2246 00:50:12,740 --> 00:50:12,750 get surprised you don't have a failure 2247 00:50:12,750 --> 00:50:14,630 get surprised you don't have a failure and it's just by working the details 2248 00:50:14,630 --> 00:50:14,640 and it's just by working the details 2249 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,850 and it's just by working the details have people that are willing to bring 2250 00:50:16,850 --> 00:50:16,860 have people that are willing to bring 2251 00:50:16,860 --> 00:50:19,400 have people that are willing to bring you those that information and have 2252 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:19,410 you those that information and have 2253 00:50:19,410 --> 00:50:20,720 you those that information and have people that willing to help you make 2254 00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:20,730 people that willing to help you make 2255 00:50:20,730 --> 00:50:24,070 people that willing to help you make those decisions whether it be your your 2256 00:50:24,070 --> 00:50:24,080 those decisions whether it be your your 2257 00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,900 those decisions whether it be your your your own people or your contractors that 2258 00:50:26,900 --> 00:50:26,910 your own people or your contractors that 2259 00:50:26,910 --> 00:50:29,210 your own people or your contractors that help you make those decisions so I think 2260 00:50:29,210 --> 00:50:29,220 help you make those decisions so I think 2261 00:50:29,220 --> 00:50:31,670 help you make those decisions so I think if you can if you can set that type of 2262 00:50:31,670 --> 00:50:31,680 if you can if you can set that type of 2263 00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,610 if you can if you can set that type of work if you can if you can put that type 2264 00:50:34,610 --> 00:50:34,620 work if you can if you can put that type 2265 00:50:34,620 --> 00:50:36,890 work if you can if you can put that type of energy into it and you can get that 2266 00:50:36,890 --> 00:50:36,900 of energy into it and you can get that 2267 00:50:36,900 --> 00:50:38,930 of energy into it and you can get that type of people around you not have yes 2268 00:50:38,930 --> 00:50:38,940 type of people around you not have yes 2269 00:50:38,940 --> 00:50:40,370 type of people around you not have yes people around you but have people that 2270 00:50:40,370 --> 00:50:40,380 people around you but have people that 2271 00:50:40,380 --> 00:50:42,320 people around you but have people that will bring you the problems and bring 2272 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:42,330 will bring you the problems and bring 2273 00:50:42,330 --> 00:50:44,810 will bring you the problems and bring you the potential solutions I think 2274 00:50:44,810 --> 00:50:44,820 you the potential solutions I think 2275 00:50:44,820 --> 00:50:46,370 you the potential solutions I think you've got a very very high probability 2276 00:50:46,370 --> 00:50:46,380 you've got a very very high probability 2277 00:50:46,380 --> 00:50:51,110 you've got a very very high probability of avoiding the pitfalls of the type of 2278 00:50:51,110 --> 00:50:51,120 of avoiding the pitfalls of the type of 2279 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,430 of avoiding the pitfalls of the type of things that would cause you to to fail 2280 00:50:54,430 --> 00:50:54,440 things that would cause you to to fail 2281 00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,210 things that would cause you to to fail Henry do you have any further coming 2282 00:50:58,210 --> 00:50:58,220 Henry do you have any further coming 2283 00:50:58,220 --> 00:51:00,770 Henry do you have any further coming program managers got to be tough as 2284 00:51:00,770 --> 00:51:00,780 program managers got to be tough as 2285 00:51:00,780 --> 00:51:07,040 program managers got to be tough as nails I mean you've got to you you've 2286 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:07,050 nails I mean you've got to you you've 2287 00:51:07,050 --> 00:51:14,480 nails I mean you've got to you you've got to not feel intimidated or not let 2288 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:14,490 got to not feel intimidated or not let 2289 00:51:14,490 --> 00:51:20,060 got to not feel intimidated or not let the system overwhelming there's lots of 2290 00:51:20,060 --> 00:51:20,070 the system overwhelming there's lots of 2291 00:51:20,070 --> 00:51:23,030 the system overwhelming there's lots of decisions that are tough tough decisions 2292 00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:23,040 decisions that are tough tough decisions 2293 00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:24,380 decisions that are tough tough decisions decisions that's going to make 2294 00:51:24,380 --> 00:51:24,390 decisions that's going to make 2295 00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:27,560 decisions that's going to make absolutely no one happy that has to be 2296 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:27,570 absolutely no one happy that has to be 2297 00:51:27,570 --> 00:51:29,900 absolutely no one happy that has to be made and they have to be made a timely 2298 00:51:29,900 --> 00:51:29,910 made and they have to be made a timely 2299 00:51:29,910 --> 00:51:32,360 made and they have to be made a timely fashion and it takes someone with a 2300 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:32,370 fashion and it takes someone with a 2301 00:51:32,370 --> 00:51:35,330 fashion and it takes someone with a great deal of fortitude to be able to 2302 00:51:35,330 --> 00:51:35,340 great deal of fortitude to be able to 2303 00:51:35,340 --> 00:51:39,230 great deal of fortitude to be able to make those decisions and make them in a 2304 00:51:39,230 --> 00:51:39,240 make those decisions and make them in a 2305 00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:45,320 make those decisions and make them in a timely decisive kind of a way and I 2306 00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:45,330 timely decisive kind of a way and I 2307 00:51:45,330 --> 00:51:47,120 timely decisive kind of a way and I think that's one of the most important 2308 00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:47,130 think that's one of the most important 2309 00:51:47,130 --> 00:51:49,190 think that's one of the most important ingredients that a project manager has 2310 00:51:49,190 --> 00:51:49,200 ingredients that a project manager has 2311 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,440 ingredients that a project manager has to have that tends to differentiate a 2312 00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:51,450 to have that tends to differentiate a 2313 00:51:51,450 --> 00:51:55,760 to have that tends to differentiate a project manager from a director of 2314 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:55,770 project manager from a director of 2315 00:51:55,770 --> 00:51:58,220 project manager from a director of engineering or division chief for some 2316 00:51:58,220 --> 00:51:58,230 engineering or division chief for some 2317 00:51:58,230 --> 00:52:00,680 engineering or division chief for some of those other kinds of jobs there's 2318 00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:00,690 of those other kinds of jobs there's 2319 00:52:00,690 --> 00:52:03,110 of those other kinds of jobs there's lots of unpopular decisions that has to 2320 00:52:03,110 --> 00:52:03,120 lots of unpopular decisions that has to 2321 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,060 lots of unpopular decisions that has to be made and someone has to make it in 2322 00:52:05,060 --> 00:52:05,070 be made and someone has to make it in 2323 00:52:05,070 --> 00:52:06,890 be made and someone has to make it in that decision generally falls on a 2324 00:52:06,890 --> 00:52:06,900 that decision generally falls on a 2325 00:52:06,900 --> 00:52:09,530 that decision generally falls on a project manager 2326 00:52:09,530 --> 00:52:09,540 2327 00:52:09,540 --> 00:52:13,040 for our last observation Aaron I'd like 2328 00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:13,050 for our last observation Aaron I'd like 2329 00:52:13,050 --> 00:52:15,350 for our last observation Aaron I'd like to address you to address the question 2330 00:52:15,350 --> 00:52:15,360 to address you to address the question 2331 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:20,390 to address you to address the question that says we're losing the generation 2332 00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:20,400 that says we're losing the generation 2333 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,870 that says we're losing the generation that has had this experience of mercury 2334 00:52:23,870 --> 00:52:23,880 that has had this experience of mercury 2335 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:29,270 that has had this experience of mercury gemenese Skylab Apollo shuttle and some 2336 00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:29,280 gemenese Skylab Apollo shuttle and some 2337 00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,400 gemenese Skylab Apollo shuttle and some people express a concern as to whether 2338 00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:31,410 people express a concern as to whether 2339 00:52:31,410 --> 00:52:34,220 people express a concern as to whether we will have the management capability 2340 00:52:34,220 --> 00:52:34,230 we will have the management capability 2341 00:52:34,230 --> 00:52:37,610 we will have the management capability and depth as we go into the future well 2342 00:52:37,610 --> 00:52:37,620 and depth as we go into the future well 2343 00:52:37,620 --> 00:52:40,460 and depth as we go into the future well I think we are losing we have lost a lot 2344 00:52:40,460 --> 00:52:40,470 I think we are losing we have lost a lot 2345 00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:42,680 I think we are losing we have lost a lot of people that regard the time has 2346 00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:42,690 of people that regard the time has 2347 00:52:42,690 --> 00:52:44,180 of people that regard the time has caught up with us in that regard or 2348 00:52:44,180 --> 00:52:44,190 caught up with us in that regard or 2349 00:52:44,190 --> 00:52:45,110 caught up with us in that regard or times caught up with some of the people 2350 00:52:45,110 --> 00:52:45,120 times caught up with some of the people 2351 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,870 times caught up with some of the people on the other hand I really think from a 2352 00:52:47,870 --> 00:52:47,880 on the other hand I really think from a 2353 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,320 on the other hand I really think from a more positive point of view I think that 2354 00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:51,330 more positive point of view I think that 2355 00:52:51,330 --> 00:52:55,270 more positive point of view I think that we do still have a lot of people around 2356 00:52:55,270 --> 00:52:55,280 we do still have a lot of people around 2357 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,340 we do still have a lot of people around good people around we do have education 2358 00:52:58,340 --> 00:52:58,350 good people around we do have education 2359 00:52:58,350 --> 00:53:02,000 good people around we do have education programs we do recognize I think the key 2360 00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:02,010 programs we do recognize I think the key 2361 00:53:02,010 --> 00:53:04,040 programs we do recognize I think the key elements of good program management and 2362 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:04,050 elements of good program management and 2363 00:53:04,050 --> 00:53:05,750 elements of good program management and the key elements that are going to 2364 00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:05,760 the key elements that are going to 2365 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:07,580 the key elements that are going to require a person to have the tools to be 2366 00:53:07,580 --> 00:53:07,590 require a person to have the tools to be 2367 00:53:07,590 --> 00:53:08,960 require a person to have the tools to be a good program manager or a good 2368 00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:08,970 a good program manager or a good 2369 00:53:08,970 --> 00:53:11,330 a good program manager or a good engineer or a good scientist or business 2370 00:53:11,330 --> 00:53:11,340 engineer or a good scientist or business 2371 00:53:11,340 --> 00:53:12,890 engineer or a good scientist or business management I think we recognize those 2372 00:53:12,890 --> 00:53:12,900 management I think we recognize those 2373 00:53:12,900 --> 00:53:15,530 management I think we recognize those and I would say this I would say that 2374 00:53:15,530 --> 00:53:15,540 and I would say this I would say that 2375 00:53:15,540 --> 00:53:17,750 and I would say this I would say that the people that I see the young men and 2376 00:53:17,750 --> 00:53:17,760 the people that I see the young men and 2377 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,160 the people that I see the young men and women coming out of the universities 2378 00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:19,170 women coming out of the universities 2379 00:53:19,170 --> 00:53:22,370 women coming out of the universities today I'm pretty high on them I look at 2380 00:53:22,370 --> 00:53:22,380 today I'm pretty high on them I look at 2381 00:53:22,380 --> 00:53:23,690 today I'm pretty high on them I look at what some of the young people we've 2382 00:53:23,690 --> 00:53:23,700 what some of the young people we've 2383 00:53:23,700 --> 00:53:24,920 what some of the young people we've hired and we're hiring quite a few as 2384 00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:24,930 hired and we're hiring quite a few as 2385 00:53:24,930 --> 00:53:28,940 hired and we're hiring quite a few as I'm sure all centers are i think i have 2386 00:53:28,940 --> 00:53:28,950 I'm sure all centers are i think i have 2387 00:53:28,950 --> 00:53:31,940 I'm sure all centers are i think i have no question in my mind i really have no 2388 00:53:31,940 --> 00:53:31,950 no question in my mind i really have no 2389 00:53:31,950 --> 00:53:33,830 no question in my mind i really have no question in my mind that they will be 2390 00:53:33,830 --> 00:53:33,840 question in my mind that they will be 2391 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,010 question in my mind that they will be able to step up to the challenge of the 2392 00:53:37,010 --> 00:53:37,020 able to step up to the challenge of the 2393 00:53:37,020 --> 00:53:39,530 able to step up to the challenge of the large new programs that i hope that that 2394 00:53:39,530 --> 00:53:39,540 large new programs that i hope that that 2395 00:53:39,540 --> 00:53:40,760 large new programs that i hope that that we're working on that will come to pass 2396 00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:40,770 we're working on that will come to pass 2397 00:53:40,770 --> 00:53:42,140 we're working on that will come to pass in the future which i think will come to 2398 00:53:42,140 --> 00:53:42,150 in the future which i think will come to 2399 00:53:42,150 --> 00:53:43,880 in the future which i think will come to pass in the future and i just have no 2400 00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:43,890 pass in the future and i just have no 2401 00:53:43,890 --> 00:53:45,020 pass in the future and i just have no question my mind that we're going to 2402 00:53:45,020 --> 00:53:45,030 question my mind that we're going to 2403 00:53:45,030 --> 00:53:46,730 question my mind that we're going to have the right people we got the right 2404 00:53:46,730 --> 00:53:46,740 have the right people we got the right 2405 00:53:46,740 --> 00:53:48,860 have the right people we got the right attitude we got the right leadership all 2406 00:53:48,860 --> 00:53:48,870 attitude we got the right leadership all 2407 00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:51,350 attitude we got the right leadership all the center's feel that way so I just I 2408 00:53:51,350 --> 00:53:51,360 the center's feel that way so I just I 2409 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:53,000 the center's feel that way so I just I feel that we keep going down the path 2410 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:53,010 feel that we keep going down the path 2411 00:53:53,010 --> 00:53:55,310 feel that we keep going down the path we're going with the emphasis we have 2412 00:53:55,310 --> 00:53:55,320 we're going with the emphasis we have 2413 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,500 we're going with the emphasis we have that will have the capability to do the 2414 00:53:57,500 --> 00:53:57,510 that will have the capability to do the 2415 00:53:57,510 --> 00:54:00,110 that will have the capability to do the big programs in the future Henry would 2416 00:54:00,110 --> 00:54:00,120 big programs in the future Henry would 2417 00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:01,790 big programs in the future Henry would you like to come in I didn't agree with 2418 00:54:01,790 --> 00:54:01,800 you like to come in I didn't agree with 2419 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,620 you like to come in I didn't agree with air and a hundred percent I think we 2420 00:54:03,620 --> 00:54:03,630 air and a hundred percent I think we 2421 00:54:03,630 --> 00:54:05,480 air and a hundred percent I think we need to remember that we went to the 2422 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:05,490 need to remember that we went to the 2423 00:54:05,490 --> 00:54:10,370 need to remember that we went to the moon with a young team of people you 2424 00:54:10,370 --> 00:54:10,380 moon with a young team of people you 2425 00:54:10,380 --> 00:54:12,980 moon with a young team of people you know we had a few experienced people and 2426 00:54:12,980 --> 00:54:12,990 know we had a few experienced people and 2427 00:54:12,990 --> 00:54:16,610 know we had a few experienced people and a lot of kids out there and not a one of 2428 00:54:16,610 --> 00:54:16,620 a lot of kids out there and not a one of 2429 00:54:16,620 --> 00:54:18,950 a lot of kids out there and not a one of them let us down the ones that we're 2430 00:54:18,950 --> 00:54:18,960 them let us down the ones that we're 2431 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:19,810 them let us down the ones that we're getting today 2432 00:54:19,810 --> 00:54:19,820 getting today 2433 00:54:19,820 --> 00:54:23,470 getting today or the country's finest you know they're 2434 00:54:23,470 --> 00:54:23,480 or the country's finest you know they're 2435 00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,170 or the country's finest you know they're much better educated than we were they 2436 00:54:26,170 --> 00:54:26,180 much better educated than we were they 2437 00:54:26,180 --> 00:54:28,210 much better educated than we were they have a much better foundation start out 2438 00:54:28,210 --> 00:54:28,220 have a much better foundation start out 2439 00:54:28,220 --> 00:54:31,420 have a much better foundation start out they work just as hard they have the 2440 00:54:31,420 --> 00:54:31,430 they work just as hard they have the 2441 00:54:31,430 --> 00:54:34,260 they work just as hard they have the same kind of worth a death at we had and 2442 00:54:34,260 --> 00:54:34,270 same kind of worth a death at we had and 2443 00:54:34,270 --> 00:54:37,810 same kind of worth a death at we had and I think when the time comes for them to 2444 00:54:37,810 --> 00:54:37,820 I think when the time comes for them to 2445 00:54:37,820 --> 00:54:40,150 I think when the time comes for them to take over this responsibility they will 2446 00:54:40,150 --> 00:54:40,160 take over this responsibility they will 2447 00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,940 take over this responsibility they will not let the country down I'm confident 2448 00:54:42,940 --> 00:54:42,950 not let the country down I'm confident 2449 00:54:42,950 --> 00:54:46,060 not let the country down I'm confident of that I don't think you can give them 2450 00:54:46,060 --> 00:54:46,070 of that I don't think you can give them 2451 00:54:46,070 --> 00:54:48,100 of that I don't think you can give them too much responsibility to quick right 2452 00:54:48,100 --> 00:54:48,110 too much responsibility to quick right 2453 00:54:48,110 --> 00:54:54,040 too much responsibility to quick right now Aaron Henry thank you very much and 2454 00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:54,050 now Aaron Henry thank you very much and 2455 00:54:54,050 --> 00:54:58,540 now Aaron Henry thank you very much and this concludes this discussion of 2456 00:54:58,540 --> 00:54:58,550 this concludes this discussion of 2457 00:54:58,550 --> 00:55:01,000 this concludes this discussion of program and project management in a 2458 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:01,010 program and project management in a 2459 00:55:01,010 --> 00:55:03,820 program and project management in a manned space flight program setting you 2460 00:55:03,820 --> 00:55:03,830 manned space flight program setting you 2461 00:55:03,830 --> 00:55:07,430 manned space flight program setting you thank you and goodbye 2462 00:55:07,430 --> 00:55:07,440 thank you and goodbye 2463 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,500 thank you and goodbye you